When are you going fully electric?

delta0 said:
That’s a bit of a painful read. The 4680 will increase the range and reduce the cost. Last number I had was 13% increase in range.
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It can still be that the software is being conservative on the current 4680 MY battery capacity and they will offer a slow reveal of it's full capabilities after tuning cooling/charging of them in the field, they don't want to queer the existing cars market&residuals too.
they have been cagey on the new cells capacity and weight - catl had some comment that their version has some 14% more energy in the form factor too,
maybe the tesla employee owners are sworn in the short term not to resell for a competitor tear-down too
 
jpaul said:
It can still be that the software is being conservative on the current 4680 MY battery capacity and they will offer a slow reveal of it's full capabilities after tuning cooling/charging of them in the field, they don't want to queer the existing cars market&residuals too.
they have been cagey on the new cells capacity and weight - catl had some comment that their version has some 14% more energy in the form factor too,
maybe the tesla employee owners are sworn in the short term not to resell for a competitor tear-down too
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Tesla have done that with new battery launches. The 3L had slow charging at first as they hadn’t fully worked out how far it could be pushed. Within a few months it became the fastest charging battery Tesla has. 5L is/will go through the same thing. Based on this 4680 probably would too. They are somewhat unique in that they will release things before they are fully optimised and just keep refining them. Continuous development rather than waiting to do a major update.
 
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And when they overuse the customer as beta testers they can also throttle the charge speed to protect the overcooked ones.

case in point: Norway legal complaint against Model S charge speed reduction.

unique is definitely the word, sometimes they have a lasso too…
 
4680 cell Whr/Kg hmmh - graphic that shows how much the car battery weight could impact the energy use for WLTP consumption/range test.
.. if you increase car mass 300kg ~13% more energy, some of that would be recoverable in an ev, but, not having spent the energy in the first place is better.
Bev more efficient than an ICE , so consumption/range impact likely to track the blue line more closely than petrol/disel.
2020 Comparative Evaluation of the Effect of Vehicle Parameters on Fuel Consumption under NEDC and WLTP
mpdi Received: 16 June 2020; Accepted: 10 August 2020; Published: 17 August 2020

52021221298_7a8a6dfcbf_b_d.jpg

Personally I thought impact on my petrol car of 300kg delta, a car load of people, would be a lot more than 8->9 L/100kg, it feels like it when driving.
 
jpaul said:
4680 cell Whr/Kg hmmh - graphic that shows how much the car battery weight could impact the energy use for WLTP consumption/range test.
.. if you increase car mass 300kg ~13% more energy, some of that would be recoverable in an ev, but, not having spent the energy in the first place is better.
Bev more efficient than an ICE , so consumption/range impact likely to track the blue line more closely than petrol/disel.
2020 Comparative Evaluation of the Effect of Vehicle Parameters on Fuel Consumption under NEDC and WLTP
mpdi Received: 16 June 2020; Accepted: 10 August 2020; Published: 17 August 2020

52021221298_7a8a6dfcbf_b_d.jpg

Personally I thought impact on my petrol car of 300kg delta, a car load of people, would be a lot more than 8->9 L/100kg, it feels like it when driving.
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That's just retarded use of chart axes to present a misleading view.

As far as I can tell it's a 13% increase in consumption for EV and a 10% increase in consumption for ICE

So much of a muchness then
 
chanjy said:
That's just retarded use of chart axes to present a misleading view.
As far as I can tell it's a 13% increase in consumption for EV and a 10% increase in consumption for ICE
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you probably need to look at the paper,
what might be your misunderstsanding - the energy/joules are not the calorific value of fuels involved (diesel left, gas right ) rather total J accelerating the mass/typical aero/tyre drag etc. - which are independant of diesel/petrol (joule lines same left and right);
Once the relative efficiency of diesel/gas are introduced they show the L/100Km indicated
The Joule line would correspond to ideal energy used in a bev with 100% efficiency (for translating battery energy to wheels)
- so Joule data, and its reduction with weight, corresponds to potential wltp range gains for a lighter weight MY battery pack
 
jpaul said:
It can still be that the software is being conservative on the current 4680 MY battery capacity and they will offer a slow reveal of it's full capabilities after tuning cooling/charging of them in the field, they don't want to queer the existing cars market&residuals too.
they have been cagey on the new cells capacity and weight - catl had some comment that their version has some 14% more energy in the form factor too,
maybe the tesla employee owners are sworn in the short term not to resell for a competitor tear-down too
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Congrats you managed to start with a capital and make it as far as the first comma before it turned to jibberish.
It was a long sentence up until the first comma as well. ;)
 
dLockers said:
Chaps, if I got an EV - can I still get a free charger?
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Free chargers were only ever a manufacturer based deal AFAIK. The government OLEV grant that got you £350 off an install ended on 01/04/2022.

With Octopus you can get a discounted Ohme commando or 3-pin “smart” charger (£299) but neither are “installed”, just plug in and use.
 
Most(?) EVs do come with a standard 3pin charger* included I think.

*It's actually a "power supply", not a "charger" because the battery charger is built into the car and plugging it in is purely supplying power to the charger
 
Whilst this is true (on both fronts, the “charger” is actually an EVSE, and most cars come with one, but not all - see recent Tesla announcement that they will no longer be included) they are typically dumb and not all cars are great with scheduling and/or have poor apps for control over charging. We tend to use the Ohme charger on our Passat PHEV as the in-built VW controls for scheduling are cack.
 
dLockers said:
Ah ok thanks. Not mega bucks in any case then. Tbh a regular 3 pin would probably be fine given intended use case.
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Again with these you might want to consider what your use case is before choose wall box or going the 3pin route, for example some are setup to work well with solar etc and have snazzy apps to control this stuff, a lot of 3pin chargers cap out a just over 2.3Kw so are slower sources to charge your car than a 7Kw wall box, I believe this is done on safety grounds, to accommodate all types of wiring that might exist in a house etc.

What ever you choose the charging speed will be dependent on what the onboard charger of the car do, not all cars are the same, the Volvo PHEV we have gone for only has a 3.6kw charger which is a bit rubbish :rolleyes: so our snazzy 7kW wallbox is a bit OTT but at least we know it has appropriate cabling to it to handle sustained high current draw.
 
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Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Congrats you managed to start with a capital and make it as far as the first comma before it turned to jibberish.
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which bit didn't you understand - others did - yes, it relies on knowledge of the market.
they have been cagey on the new cells capacity and weight - catl had some comment that their version has some 14% more energy in the form factor too,
tesla haven't disclosed battery capacity/weght we're waiting for a tear-down , catl (another supplier) say they can do better which will emabarrass tesla
maybe the tesla employee owners are sworn in the short term not to resell for a competitor tear-down too
new cars were given exclusively to teslas employees at texas giga event - curious the guinea-pigs or chosen ones.
 
New batteries are LFP which are cheaper and Colbalt free but less energy dense. There is no range increase on equivalence. You will notice claim they ‘enable range increase’.


Regarding 3 pin. Some OEMs still include. Eg Mini but the 44week lead time and rising costs mean they may follow other OEMs and turn them into a cost option.
 
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