When are you going fully electric?

[Uther]

Just cancelled my MG4 order.

I really enjoyed driving it on my test drives. But it's not the family car I was meant to be shopping for Not big enough, and the SE SR has some silly omissions (for a family car) like no rear speakers, rear cabin lights and no load rating for the roof (plus stuff that I want, like a reversing camera). Also got somewhat put off by reliability reports and the efficiency being reported by owners.

You'd need to be looking at the Trophy to get a lot of that stuff (- the roof carrying and possible reliability )
MG5?
The Trophy would probably do me, although it has some silly ommissions, like a rear wiper and no electric adjustment on the passenger seat.
As for the costs, yes it will certainly be a factor when I come to change from my current 2L diesel.

 

[chanjy]

My maths must be different to others.
ev @ 34ppkwh getting 2.2 miles per kwh is 15.453ppm

ice 50mpg @ £1.70 per litre is 15.454ppm
Who gets 2.2mpkwh? - well apart from taycans.

3mpkwh =11.33ppm
60mpg diesel @£1.70 is 12.8ppm

Now if petrol/diesel nose dives then that's a different kettle of fish.

Besides, i though EV's were bought to save the planet and our future generations?

Your maths is fine

When the weather is -5 outside and you are using a lot of heating (and doing short journeys like school runs, shops) then the efficiency is crap

And I didn't mean the same to the third decimal place ffs

 

[Journey]

Was mighty impressed with my vehicle over the last cold snap, especially when I decided I'd update the maps/software and give it a clean inside while it was updating. Whacked the heater on, heated seats and I spent nearly 2 hours in there for less than 5% used from the pack, didn't want to get out to be honest it was so nice and toasty.

 

[m4rmite]

Your maths is fine

When the weather is -5 outside and you are using a lot of heating (and doing short journeys like school runs, shops) then the efficiency is crap

And I didn't mean the same to the third decimal place ffs

I got a spreadsheet that works out the ppm If you put in the ppl ppkwh

Even at-7 i managed 2.8mpkwh with the heating on full and seats on.
Gotta stay toasty.

 

[FerretBoy]

I now have an entire year of driving and my average is 350 Wh per mile, including charging efficiency.

Efficient diesels don't get good efficiency either in the freezing cold and short journeys.

 

[McPhee]

My maths must be different to others.

Try again with charging losses factored in. ADAC Ecotest gives figures between 10% and 25% depending on model and charge rate, with a ~16% average across all models tested.

The conclusion remains the same; EVs are still cheaper to run. But nobody was arguing the contrary. However, the gap is closing. Factor in a higher purchase price (and rising finance costs) and EV isn't going to always be the cheaper option any more.

 

[chanjy]

Yup

EV is still cheaper to run but it’s pretty close right now and BEV is still a lot more expensive. BNEF forecasting ICE/BEV cost parity by 2026/7 though so it’ll flip eventually

 

[SDK^]

Your maths is fine

When the weather is -5 outside and you are using a lot of heating (and doing short journeys like school runs, shops) then the efficiency is crap

And I didn't mean the same to the third decimal place ffs

Of course; It’s the same for fuel cars too - no one using a diesel car for short runs in the winter is getting 50mpg.

 

[sandys]

Nope, our diesel is doing ~24mpg..... and my petrol has dropped to 36mpg a ~10mpg drop mostly due to people being dicks in the cold weather and crashing a lot leaving me idling loads for heat and more stop start traffic than normal, but the big diesel 4x4 was never good anyway.

 

[dlockers]

Was going to use the Pug for a 100 mile round trip today but zero confidence it'll do it despite 100% battery. Dropped from 197 to 180 just doing the 4 mile school drop off.

 

[Journey]

Even at-7 i managed 2.8mpkwh with the heating on full and seats on.
Gotta stay toasty.

I was down to just under 4mpkWh, but back up to 5+ yesterday with the warmer weather even though the roads wer wet.

 

[Simon]

Was going to use the Pug for a 100 mile round trip today but zero confidence it'll do it despite 100% battery. Dropped from 197 to 180 just doing the 4 mile school drop off.

Easy. You put the heating on

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Was going to use the Pug for a 100 mile round trip today but zero confidence it'll do it despite 100% battery. Dropped from 197 to 180 just doing the 4 mile school drop off.

Of course it would have done.

You’ll use so much energy in the first few minutes of operating the car, heating/cooling the cabin from ambient, working through slow stop start traffic etc. That is not exactly representative of getting out and cruising at a steady speed on the open road for 45 miles.

 

[ICDP]

Of course it would have done.

You’ll use so much energy in the first few minutes of operating the car, heating/cooling the cabin from ambient, working through slow stop start traffic etc. That is not exactly representative of getting out and cruising at a steady speed on the open road for 45 miles.

It is surprising how experienced EV owners lose site of this simple fact. Have a few friends who have had EVs for years who say things like, "I love pre-heating and getting into a toasty EV in the morning and on the way home from work". Then in almost the same breath complain about how their range is only 160 miles in Winter.

Just doing a 15 minute pre-heat this morning with the cable unplugged sucked 4 miles of my estimated range on the GoM. Do that two times a day to and from work/school runs and you can say goodbye to about 40 miles of range per week, just going nowhere.

 

[dlockers]

Of course it would have done.

You’ll use so much energy in the first few minutes of operating the car, heating/cooling the cabin from ambient, working through slow stop start traffic etc. That is not exactly representative of getting out and cruising at a steady speed on the open road for 45 miles.

I'm sure it would have but given the last long-ish journey ended up in an emergency south Mimms visit (given the somewhat random number generating range estimation) it has knocked confidence in these slightly longer trips.

I did in the Merc instead and can see it was 120 miles - one way longs of roundabouts, and on the way back mostly M40. I reckon we could have done it but definitely less fun

 

[Greebo]

My maths must be different to others.
ev @ 34ppkwh getting 2.2 miles per kwh is 15.453ppm

ice 50mpg @ £1.70 per litre is 15.454ppm
Who gets 2.2mpkwh? - well apart from taycans.

3mpkwh =11.33ppm
60mpg diesel @£1.70 is 12.8ppm

Now if petrol/diesel nose dives then that's a different kettle of fish.

Besides, i though EV's were bought to save the planet and our future generations?

Petrol is £1.32 and diesel is £1.49 if you know where to buy so you petrol figures are

petrol 12.000ppm so 3.453ppm cheaper than your E2.2 miles per kwh

and

diesel 11.29ppm so 0.04ppm cheaper than your 3mpkwh quoted figure.

So yeah at the moment with elctric prices being where they are, unless you have an octopus go tariff or solar panel with battery storage which you then use to charge up your car, then EVs are currently more to run per mile.

More so if you have to pay for any charging.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Something doing 2.2 miles/kWh is not giving you the same attributes as a 60mpg diesel.

PS we ain't all fleet junkies tapped into fuel cards - forecourt prices please.

PPS AC charging need efficiency also needs to be accounted for with maths

 

[AndrewNR]

Being really pedantic - how much does the cost of a charger installation/maintenance add to the ppm of EV?

 

[b0rn2sk8]

How long or short is a piece of string?

It’s a product with a lifespan that should be measured in years if not decades. It also depends on if you are factoring in depreciation into your milage rates or not. If not when why would you include it?

Likewise, using a tariff like octopus go isn’t viable on a granny charger so it’s not just about the cost but also the opportunities it brings.

That’s before you consider how much you actually paid for it.

 

[Kill_Phil]

@Greebo 2.2kwh is during any major cold snap like we've just had. I'm closer to 2.8kwh and could easily eek out more but don't want to sacrifice any comfort ha. Come summer months will be more like 4kwh.

But yeah unless charging at home there's not much in it... for now anyhow. Rishi being rather coy today on the 12p fuel duty increase due April