When are you going fully electric?

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Seen? Where. The problem with auto driving is the random events that happen that cause accidents

Seen where?, well I would say 99.99% of drivers I have either driven with or been around my entire 30+ years of driving. Some will probably break the rules within 15 seconds of setting off.
(Don't get me wrong I am just as guilty as most, other than urban areas I will speed, and I will drive too close but for me its as large a gap as I can maintain without someone thinking they can get into it easily and force me to take remedial action.

I am being a little tongue in cheek in regards the system being better but as I said if you apply a good driver also requires that person to follow the rules, all the time, not just some of them some of the time, then I believe just about every driver fails within minutes on just about every journey.
The ones who typically are following the rules are learner drivers, not speeding, being made to follow the safe distance.

The problem for me is that the technology doesn't seem to be reliable yet. I have speed limit display in my car which uses a camera to tell me the speed limit. Presumably the same sort of technology which an autonomous driving system would use to determine the speed limit.

It frequently displays the wrong speed limit - often a number far higher than it should and often a number which is higher than any speed limit in the UK.

This particular thing I find as well and really as I said before its the insistence on trying to use human readable signs when a far better solution would be a more detailed eg bar code type solution that is machine readable.
Use the same posts and then all should be dandy.

Isn’t the point that if you use the appropriate following distance and speed (which human drivers fail at spectacularly on the daily) then those ‘random’ events become a non issue.

Exactly the point yes. Now there is some way to go for driverless, no one is arguing there isn't, but the main issue for driverless is humans doing things they shouldn't. If drivers followed the rules, all the rules, it would be a hell of a lot easier to implement.
Which is why I say at some point we have to give priority to making the system work for most.
The video someone linked above was a perfect example. All the most difficult situations it had to deal with were due to humans, illegal maneuvers (three point turn on a junction!), parking in a bad spot, walking in front etc

 

[b0rn2sk8]

No. Cause a dog running out or someone opening a door cannot be forseen

Mate it’s can’t even go around a roundabout in this country yet. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves

Because human drivers handle those really well also? The expectation that a driverless car will never crash isn’t going to be reality, they just have to be better than human drivers who frankly aren’t very good and crash all the time.

Tesla in the U.K. sure but they are not the only game in town…

UK's first driverless bus begins passenger service in Edinburgh https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-65589913

Goes round roundabouts and everything

 

[bigmike20vt]

am sure there are reasons why it wont work but............... if all cars started being fitted now with some form of ID chip and transmitter, detailing what the car is and its dimensions etc, as well as cars with sensors transmitting very defined information between them -gps location and possible blockages in the road which the car had detected in the past 30 seconds then that would also help reduce accodents and make it easier for autonomy.

at some point in the future the system would be activated and at that point people with old bangers would be required to fit them as well, and cyclists or any other road users would also be required to have one as well when going on a public road..

that way the car would know someone was approaching them, even from a blind pullout behind a parked car before the vehicles could actually see them.

pedestrians would be another problem but ultimately the burden of care is on a pedestrian as soon as they step off the pavement.... so sure a self drive car would do the best it could, but would not be expected to cause an accident to avoid someone stepping out blindly........ that would be on the pedestrian. (unless it was at a crossing which again the car could easily be made aware of).

stuff like road markings etc may need to be improved but to be honest, they need to be anyway.

coming back from a jaunt over the weekend around various cities and big towns i didnt know it was really confusing...... the road markings were often worn away and the signage was often hard to see esp with big lorries etc knocking about blocking them

 

[Simon]

The ‘driverless’ bus with a driver ?

I don’t even know who wants to be driven either. Its hardly a relaxing experience to be not in control

 

[bigmike20vt]

The ‘driverless’ bus with a driver ?

I don’t even know who wants to be driven either. Its hardly a relaxing experience to be not in control

it will certainly take time to let go.... but as for who wants to be driven...

for public transport i guess that will be down to the operators wanting to not have to pay staff.

but for my own car....... sure i do enjoy driving and would miss it............... BUT if i could just put the car in drive, put my seat back and have a snooze, or watch a movie or play a videogame (or even god forbid do some work)

i would definitely prefer that for long journeys.

for shorter journeys it may even mean the end of the home owned car - or at least going back to 1 family owned car and then one you just call when you need it, it would swing by, pick you up then take you to where ever before dropping you off and going on its way. yes a taxi can do that............ but a self drive car would presumably be much cheaper.

there is the whole social aspect of loss of jobs of course........ no answer there but given a car is actually a paperweight for 90% of the time, i imagine we would cut the number of cars needed to be made hugely if they were autonomous (which would keep the green folk worried about kids down mines etc much happier)

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I don’t even know who wants to be driven either. Its hardly a relaxing experience to be not in control

Buses, taxis and trains seem to have a reasonable sized market. I imagine a lot more people would take taxis if they were cost effective to use daily.

 

[lordrobs]

The ‘driverless’ bus with a driver ?

I don’t even know who wants to be driven either. Its hardly a relaxing experience to be not in control

TBH the only scenarios I can think of where I'd like the car to be able to drive itself are when I'm not in it!

Busy supermarket at Christmas - take yourself and find a space... or do laps of the car park, I don't care
Going somewhere further afield for a bike ride - drive yourself home or come and pick me up.
Car needs an MOT / service - off you pop and come straight home after.

Any time I'm in it, I'd rather be driving the thing.

 

[jpaul]

yes - what could you be doing if you weren't behind the wheel - UK roads at least aren't going to provide a smooth ride to allow you to work/eat like a plane or train,
catching up on some sleep would be good, or just watching the scenery.


Not just any driverless bus - Lidar inside - phew

CAVstar®​

Fusion Processing has developed an automated driving system (ADS) called CAVstar which can integrate with OEM systems or tailored and retrofitted any vehicle to give it AV level 4 or 5 of autonomy. The CAVstar system consists of Fusion's AI processing unit coupled with radar, LIDAR, optical cameras and ultrasonic sensors, which enable the system to analyse and understand its environment; to anticipate movements of other vehicles and vulnerable road users; to identify its surroundings and plot a safe course, then to generate the necessary inputs to the steering, braking and throttle systems on the vehicle.

CAVstar units have already been used as vehicle control systems in several high-profile autonomous vehicle projects, including full-sized buses, last-mile pods, small robots and off-road vehicles.

...
Fusion is also involved in the HelmUK Advanced Platooning Trial, a research project lead by TRL involving the first real-world operational trial of platooning vehicles on UK roads. Our technology is being used as part of the trial in which cutting-edge technology will enable three DAF Heavy Goods Vehicles (HGVs) to travel safely in close proximity, at speed, with the lead driver controlling the speed, acceleration and breaking of the whole ‘platoon’.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I don’t even know who wants to be driven either. Its hardly a relaxing experience to be not in control

Any time I'm in it, I'd rather be driving the thing.

Both single with no partner or something?
You never go into a car with someone else driving it?

 

[lordrobs]

Both single with no partner or something?
You never go into a car with someone else driving it?

I'm happy to drive and my wife is happy to let me drive, perfect relationship

Yes, of course I have occasion to get in a car when someone else is driving. I just prefer to be driving myself.

If / when they can get "full self drive" to the point where they don't need to caveat it's use with "YOU MUST REMAIN VIGILANT AT ALL TIMES" and if/ when the insurance / legal interpretation of liability shifts to the car manufacturer, not the driver, in the event of an accident THEN I might be interested in letting the car do some of the driving. Until that point, I'll carry on. Just like I have done since I started driving 24 years ago.

 

[Simon]

Both single with no partner or something?
You never go into a car with someone else driving it?

Yeah and it’s an ordeal when they drive. Joke. It’s just having tried lots of auto drive systems I’m more nervous getting ready to take over than just chill with my hand on the wheel. Need some significant law changes before it’s like a plane when u can just sit and watch a film.


But if we can get motorways to do 30-50 miles hands free then this would be enough for me.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I'm happy to drive and my wife is happy to let me drive, perfect relationship

Yes, of course I have occasion to get in a car when someone else is driving. I just prefer to be driving myself.

If / when they can get "full self drive" to the point where they don't need to caveat it's use with "YOU MUST REMAIN VIGILANT AT ALL TIMES" and if/ when the insurance / legal interpretation of liability shifts to the car manufacturer, not the driver, in the event of an accident THEN I might be interested in letting the car do some of the driving. Until that point, I'll carry on. Just like I have done since I started driving 24 years ago.

I think from what I can tell, almost all drivers feel more in control when driving.
I hate being a passenger with my other half, she drives 30K a year and still drives too close and too fast on main roads.
She hates my driving, yet I drive slower and with more gaps on main roads. BUt on back type roads where she complains about my driving I drive faster than her, corner faster than her etc.
I will also overtake on back roads and she won't most of the time.

Legislation is struggling slightly here. I remember having these discussions when I worked at an insurance company turn of the millenium!
IMO they will fall down on the manufacturer having liability when in full driving mode and that will delay the implementation whilst they work out how to handle it.
It will need to be able to record who was actually in control and for how long should something happen. They cant for example just go "oh **** this is going to be bad, driver your back in control" to get out of liability.

Yeah and it’s an ordeal when they drive. Joke. It’s just having tried lots of auto drive systems I’m more nervous getting ready to take over than just chill with my hand on the wheel. Need some significant law changes before it’s like a plane when u can just sit and watch a film.


But if we can get motorways to do 30-50 miles hands free then this would be enough for me.

I was being a bit tongue in cheek.

But yes I am with you, I think its completely reasonable that that sort of test will be required.
I honestly think we will likely see some self driving lanes on Motorways before anything else. Which would likely end up as the outer lane, since it would avoid any drivers having to cross the EV lane where as the Ev can get there itself, or maybe teh driver gets there and then hands over control.
It should probably be a fixed speed though, ie dead on 70 say. Not have loads of cars in EV mode trying to go faster and slower.

 

[chanjy]

I hate being a passenger with my other half, she drives 30K a year and still drives too close and too fast on main roads.
She hates my driving, yet I drive slower and with more gaps on main roads. BUt on back type roads where she complains about my driving I drive faster than her, corner faster than her etc.
I will also overtake on back roads and she won't most of the time.

Are you married to my wife

 

[Em3bbs]

This particular thing I find as well and really as I said before its the insistence on trying to use human readable signs when a far better solution would be a more detailed eg bar code type solution that is machine readable.
Use the same posts and then all should be dandy.

Yes and lets put big QR codes on all animals as well, so the car can clearly see if it's a rabbit, dog or whatever and drive accordingly!

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Yes and lets put big QR codes on all animals as well, so the car can clearly see if it's a rabbit, dog or whatever and drive accordingly!

Whats that got to do with being able to read the speed signs?

 

[jpaul]

so you need a bar code reader on your bicycle, or, as a pedstrain, to interpret the road, too -
a bar code in addition to the sign - maybe - if they can be read more accurately, like buying a product in the supermarket, but,
with better computer vision perhaps bar codes in supermarkets become redundant, people fraudulently move bar codes between products too.

e: to wit - Amazon go store no bar codes just AI identity of products.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Put the glue down pal.

 

[Kenai]

I don't think being able to interpret the signs is particularly the problem for these systems - it's more identifying whether they're relevant, i.e. seeing signs on adjacent roads etc.

 

[dlockers]

I don't think being able to interpret the signs is particularly the problem for these systems - it's more identifying whether they're relevant, i.e. seeing signs on adjacent roads etc.

Yeah especially on the continent with different limits for rain

 

[SKILL]

I don't think being able to interpret the signs is particularly the problem for these systems - it's more identifying whether they're relevant, i.e. seeing signs on adjacent roads etc.

Agreed, add in also damaged or obscured signs to the mix and that seems to cover most of the issues I encounter.

Fundamentally UK speed limit signs are a trivial computer vision problem in theory, a clear undamaged and relevant sign is quite easily read and processed. Changing to QR codes wouldn't really change that but come with a huge cost. I doubt if many or any of the places where current systems fall over can be fixed by QR codes.