When are you going fully electric?
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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the relative speed of the charging, as johnny said, and the relative discharge rate also contribute to degradation - plus calender ageing itself (like humans)
LFP's could be the better 2nd+ hand prospect, technology - with lower ticket price too.
Well if you have a drive to charge at home the infrastructure is sufficient for the average driver
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Associate
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Hey I googled "where do old ev car batteries go" and site came up. Apparently they can be reused and then recycled. Cool.
What happens to old electric car batteries? | National Grid Group
While electric vehicles are recognised as reducing carbon emissions, we still get lots of questions about the life of electric car batteries and whether they will end up in landfill, potentially knocking electric cars’ green credentials.
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To save you the click, old EV batteries are perfectly suitable for Solar PV installations/home batteries.
Soldato
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they are in theory.... in practice the batteries are lasting so well in cars there is a shortage of them for home battery installs.
(I am not really serious.... i realise the market for 2nd life batteries is only going to get bigger however that was my experience 2 years ago when i had my solar install. I was quoted for 2 home batteries, a brand new one and a 2nd life one. I picked the 2nd life one but had to swap over as the installer said they are like hens teeth and really hard to get hold off).
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Far better for grid based for 2 reasons
1) The tech of home batteries is more stable than the Ev ones, lower density, lower volatility
2) At grid level they require absolutely minimal unpackaging, can be inserted into containers pre setup for each type.
Like this basically
Yes and no.
In theory yes, fine from a technical perspective.
In practice, for grid scale projects to be bankable you need a very good battery warranty and high level of certainty that the system will work as intended (plus certainty over the costs). Going to need companies to step up and back the containerised solutions with significant warranties and guarantees of maintenance support and ability to swap units out to make it acceptable to a bank to lend on.
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Kind of.
Bear in mind these will be cheap, they wont be expected to be perfect, if you want perfect buy new cells, for probably 6-8x the cost.
The ROI will be low, nothing like you would need for new batteries due to the above multiplier.
They will degrade further and further, but the low cost pre final solution (materials recovery) should mean they can be profitable quickly and then run until they reach the point of conversion loss killing profitability.
The same reasons you quote in fact they would be even more of a problem to be used in home settings.
For home use you need to 1) strip them (well for most people) test and repackage into something more suited to a domestic environment. 2) All that adds cost and then people want warranty.
My home batteries have 10 years warranty, they need to due to the cost!
I could get 5x the capacity for the same (in fact less) cost with an old leaf battery, but I would have an old leaf battery down the side of my house, and right now the connections are a bit janky and would probably be classified as not up to regs so you would need to work on that angle as well.
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Not sure if this has been discussed before but I think regen breaking should turn the brake light on to avoid confusion/accidents.
100%. I had some ******* tailgating me the other day so whacked regen on to wind him up.
Soldato
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its funny i was thinking about this very thing the other day...... i was wondering if regen actives the brake lights or not and i didnt know either way
i dont think the light should come on if it is fairly slight regen (i hate following cars who are continually tapping the brakes all the sodding time) but certainly when it does fairly intense regen which slows the car down quite quickly then i agree, it should activate the brake lights.
one would think it would not be that hard for this to be controlled via software. (but i am guessing and its certainly not my wheelhouse)
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I know my eNiro activates the brake lights if I activate the pseudo one-pedal drive by holding the left paddle - to be honest I've never checked if it does it when set to regen level 3 and just come off the accelerator without holding the paddle...
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Soldato
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Above 1.3 m/s^2 deceleration its part of homologation requirements for brake lights to illuminate.
That model worked when Renault / Nissan leased the batteries. They could predict what quantity of batteries would be available, when they would be available and even approximate estimations on what their state of health would be.
The manufacturer stating "We've got 1500 34kWh packs with at least 75% SoC being available in 3 months" is a much more viable prospect than Joe Blogs the scrappy phoning up "Yeah mate, I've got a model 3, four Zoe's and a Leaf... you interested?"
Another model where it works is the Neo swap stations where reduced capacity packs are taken out of circulation and re-directed as required. That model seems like a non starter outside of China though. The idea seemed fantastic with no worries about battery health, recharge times, home chargers or future obsolescence but it would require multiple manufacturers to get their heads together on a standardised pack which was never going to happen. Especially with the range arms race being one of the key selling points of an EV.
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When I go from 5th to 3rd at 70mph my brake light doesn't come on 
ok thanks, so maybe it's a US thing or needs an over-the-air patch as I assume all regulations are being followed.
ok thanks, so maybe it's a US thing or needs an over-the-air patch as I assume all regulations are being followed.
Tesla determines whether to turn on your brake lights based on your vehicle's rate of deceleration. So it's not linked to either pedal.
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Your missing a few things imo
1) Scale. Those models were low volume niche products. And whilst the batteries were leased mainly from what I see they did one of three things, carried on leasing, bought the lease out, more recently went back for manufacturer reconditioning.
How many model 3s are sold per day now? Look at all the cars in scrappies now, that same volume will be reaching end of life, its just rather than ICE they will be EVs.
2) Value. There will remain a decent value in them for the recoverable materials. I don't think your ever going to see £100 banger EVs like you do with ICE because simply there will be a point before that that they will be worth more as storage batteries (for whatever process) or for reclamation cells/materials.
3) Scrappies as many exist today will struggle IMO. They are dealing with rubbish in a lot of cases, the only real value being the from trying to sell a few parts on, and then steel and a few other metals value.
These new larger scrappies are coming and IMO they will be perfect for feeding the trade for salvaged packs. With the packs becoming less simple bolt on and more integrated some disassembly will be needed, eg cut chassis in four places to get this pack, there and there to get the rest type of salvage. Again wherever the end use will be.
I don't see your average current scrappie crowbarring the cells out being able to compete.
So the
I see as far less of a realistic position towards the end of the EV life; and more, "Hi mate, I see you listed a won't run Tesla model 3 for £4k for spares or repair, I can offer £3.5k and send a trailer round to collect it"
I agree in regards battery packs, I have said for some time to me thats a better solution than built in packs. (there are some advantages with built in packs especially in regards where you can place them and it what layout) but for extended range a fast swap would be fine.
We swap out batteries in our Forklifts and VNAs at work in about 5 minutes and the new solution is fully automated. The industry however seems to be uninterested in that approach and with looks for many being as important as utility battery swaps would have to result in a slightly worse product.
Something will have to win out, there is going to be too much value left in on EVs to simply discard so then economics will take hold and IMO the cheapest model will be minimal strip down and then place lots of (say 20-30 cars worth) of identical batteries in a container and sell it as a say 1300kwh storage container. (with ticket original pack size being say more like 2500kwh say).
If you start stripping down the cells then you get variability as well, different tesla cells, almost certainly pouch type cells in future etc
nice panoramic roof in buzz that you can turn opaque - can see a resurgence in MPV's for families with the space they offer, used to see many renault espaces in works car park
regen brake lights
regen brake lights