When do you leave work? (Poll?)

8:15-5 Monday to Thursday
8:15-12:15 Friday :D

Most days we can't stay on for longer than 30minutes as the building has to be locked up and secured.
We get chucked out, no matter how urgent the report is. :rolleyes:

The occaisional Friday afternoon gets worked as overtime.
 
Sparky191 said:
Theres a HUGH difference between extra work that you get paid/rewarded for, and extra work that you get nothing for. But working for free to make someone else money makes no sense. In my experience all it gets you is MORE unpaid work.

Someone in management once told me they call this 'running on vapour', as it's unpaid overtime and therefore not in any of the project budgets.
That extra 15minutes doesn't sound like much but consider 60 people doing 15 minutes a day over the length of a 4 month project :eek:
That's a lot of time, and as we all know, time is money.
 
FishFluff said:
Depends. Some days I finish at 16:00, some days I finish at 19:00. The joys of flexitime :)

indeed, but usually work 8am till 5:30 pm on a 40 hour week. I love flexitime and flex-days :)
 
When I worked during my placement year (currently finishing my course at uni) I was contracted to work 9-5 pm with 1/2 hr for lunch

The timing was very flexible - they didn't mind if you came in at 20 past nine, for example! I was there till at least 5:30 every day, usually 6 though so that made up for it!
 
I tend to leave at 4:30pm on the dot, as i open up the office anytime between 8am and 8:30am. Normally roughly 8:10am and the next person in is normally in at 8:30 so i do my time and i'm first out the door. Fair enough imo.
 
phykell said:
So you think working for free is perfectly reasonable? Fine if it makes you happy but that's not for everyone. Personally, I make sure I get the job done on time and if I don't, well that's the project manager's fault for bad planning or my fault for making a bad estimate and I never work for free.
It's karma, what goes around comes around.

I put in a lot of extra hours which I don't get paid for but in return I've received a fair bit back. My bosses are decent enough to recognise the amount of extra time I work and over the years have rewarded me for it in other ways.

This isn't the only reason I do it, however. I also take pride in my work and like to see a job done properly and through to the end. Of course, if your bosses won't recognise such dedication and choose not to reward you for any extra time then it's up to you whether such pride and dedication alone is enough to justify the additional work.
 
phykell said:
So you think working for free is perfectly reasonable? Fine if it makes you happy but that's not for everyone. Personally, I make sure I get the job done on time and if I don't, well that's the project manager's fault for bad planning or my fault for making a bad estimate and I never work for free.
It depends how you define "free". Not every benefit has to be direct.

For a start, the person that has the dedication to put in a bit extra to make sure a job is done on time may well be the one that gets the promotion when it comes round. Even for the self-employed, doing stuff without charge can pay off. I found a local chap that did mobile car maintenance, and he so wanted to work on one of my cars that he offered to do it for nothing. I accepted, and watched him. He now is not only a good friend, but works full-time for me running my garage.

Of course, some employers will take free hours and give nothing back, but that says to me that you've got the wrong employer. Others note time and effort 'abive and beyond', and act accordingly. Personally, I hate clock-watchers and they don't have much of a future with me.
 
I am self employed (well, I work with my dad - we're both self employed in the same company and it's just us two anyway). We tend to start about 8:45ish, unless there's something we need to get to work early for. We go about 5 ish usually, unless there's nothing to do in which case we go whenever we feel like it. We've occasionally stayed quite late (was at work till nearly 11pm finishing a job a while ago, and that was with a 8:30am start). Saturdays usually get there between 8:45 - 9am, go at about 11am if there's nothing to do, or stay until the jobs done - unless it's gonna mean we'd be there all day, in which case it can wait until Monday in most cases :p .
If I'm there on my own I just go when I feel like it if there's nothing to do.
 
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happytechie said:
to the people that are unwilling to work the extra hours for your employer I always think it depends on your employer and job. I work for a small company (40 employees total) and if the job needs doing I'll nuckle down and get it done.
Well of course it's not black and white, nothing ever is, but there are far too many people who will work ridiculous hours for no pay which can affect how the rest of the staff are judged. I recall a manager once saying to me that perhaps I should get in a bit earlier just so my face is seen. Can you believe that?Mind you, that's the same manager who admitted that part of their bonus depended on how few sick days the staff took! It's the underhanded office politics and the idea of the "work ethic" which annoys me. As far as I'm concerned, I'm there to do my job in the hours I'm contracted to do. If I choose to do some extra work for no pay then fine, but no-one should be expected to work for free and no-one should be penalised for refusing to either. As I'm sure you know there's supposed to be give and take and if you're lucky enough to work for a company which does do its bit for its employees then great, everyone's a winner, but I've worked in companies where that simply isn't the case, where if it comes down to it, employees are binned as soon as there's the slightest financial excuse to do so. The work place has changed dramtically over the last couple of decades and the idea of loyalty to the employer is no longer reciprocated. Employees are more and more seen as simple resources, to be hired and fired at will, at the whim of managers and directors as they see fit. For every good manager in the UK, there are 10 really bloody awful ones and the ratio is even more extreme in the case of project managers. My last employer was great and I enjoyed working for them, but the workplace is only as good as your managers and your colleagues. Mine were great, a real family atmosphere even though we were part of a global IT consultancy. Others in the same company though, didn't fare so well and I heard plenty of horror stories while I was there. The explanation of course was that all managers (and all employees) are not made equal as no doubt you know. I'm glad you've got the job you have, but unfortunately, I fear such jobs are becoming rarer and rarer.

happytechie said:
even If I don't ALWAYS enjoy my job I have an excelent workplace, a good team around me and some very interesting work to do. Continual personal advancement, excelent opputunities for learning and some travel to the far flung corners of the world make up for it. Oh and there is the nice salary at the end of every month that pays for my holidays and leisure.
Which is why you're happy obviously! :) As I said, you're lucky, not everyone is as fortunate, not that you don't deserve it of course!

happytechie said:
Unfortunately for us in the oftware development industry the expectation of your employer that all staff will be willing to put in unpaid overtime whenever it's needed is taken as granted. I am proud of my ability to hit the targets that I set myself and If I've got to work a few extra hours late into the night it's no big deal really.
Agreed and like I say, if there's give and take I've no problem with it either. I've never actually been one to pack up at exactly 5:30 and storm out regardless of what's going on. You can't do that in IT as you know...

happytechie said:
anyway that said, this project's going to be completed ahead off schedule, be 100% feature complete and actuall do what the customer needs which is a welcome change :D so I'm off home for a well deserved beer. Paul
:D AS opposed to huge public sector projects, where no-one is going to even glance at never mind actually read the 40 page document you just wrote on how to improve the analysis phase for a development department. What's the shocking figure for the percentage of software written that is never used by anyone?
 
Vertigo1 said:
It's karma, what goes around comes around.

I put in a lot of extra hours which I don't get paid for but in return I've received a fair bit back. My bosses are decent enough to recognise the amount of extra time I work and over the years have rewarded me for it in other ways.

This isn't the only reason I do it, however. I also take pride in my work and like to see a job done properly and through to the end. Of course, if your bosses won't recognise such dedication and choose not to reward you for any extra time then it's up to you whether such pride and dedication alone is enough to justify the additional work.
I don't disagree with you but I think you're agreeing with me that working for no reward makes little if any sense, unless you have nothing else better to do of course ;)
 
Sequoia said:
It depends how you define "free". Not every benefit has to be direct.

For a start, the person that has the dedication to put in a bit extra to make sure a job is done on time may well be the one that gets the promotion when it comes round. Even for the self-employed, doing stuff without charge can pay off. I found a local chap that did mobile car maintenance, and he so wanted to work on one of my cars that he offered to do it for nothing. I accepted, and watched him. He now is not only a good friend, but works full-time for me running my garage.

Of course, some employers will take free hours and give nothing back, but that says to me that you've got the wrong employer. Others note time and effort 'abive and beyond', and act accordingly. Personally, I hate clock-watchers and they don't have much of a future with me.
"May well" isn't good enough I'm afraid. Loyalty from the company is a myth these days with bosses more concerned with saving a few quid than keeping their staff happy or even treating them with respect. As I've said, if you know of a good employer who does treat his staff well and does respect them as individuals then unfortunately, they are a dying breed. I believe (this is my own experience of course) that the vast majority of companies have poor management and even poorer employee relations. We've lost something from years ago and that's because we are tending to ape our cousins from across the pond. Speaking for the IT industry, it used to be fun years ago, and now look at it! It's largely populated by managers who've got into management as quickly as they could because they couldn't hack the technical side of the job, and the technies have become ever more responsible for every single part of their job, often with little or no training, long hours and treated like factory workers. The middle and upper management of consultancy companies refer people who develop software as mere code monkeys, and the software they write as "scripting". I've heard it! They see every techie as a waste of an opportunity to employ some mythical Indian programmer who is much better educated, much harder working and a tenth of the price. Again, I've see this with my own two eyes. I've been in the meetings where upper management have wanted to make cuts in the development and support areas believing that it's a simple exercise to farm everything out to India or wherever else the latest management book is telling them to look. The IT industry in this country is a mere shadow of what it once was and I for one do not enjoy working in it anymore. Even more irritating than ineffectual, and even bullying managers is the amount of incompetence there is out there. The number of people I've met who simply cannot do the job is shocking. The amount of dead wood that saps the profits of these companies but does the management layer recognise that? Of course not. They're more interested in how many sick days people have, and what time everyone gets in, and whether they like the same bloody football team. Screw all of that, I'm glad I work for myself with
people I know I can trust...

Wow, I've no idea where all that came from! :o :D
 
leaving work? depends. as i work in IT normal hours dont apply as some work can only be done out ouf hours
usually i work from 08:00-18:00 but if a job needs to be done i stay as late as needed and still come in the next morning at 08:00. but on friday i usually work 09:00 - 17:30.

Ingouk
 
I work the days I like and at what ever times I like.

I have never had a full-time job for an employer so in the back of my mind I dont think I appreciate the freedom being self-employed gives.
 
I work quite long hours, often leaving 8pm... but 1am the other day. I'm on cal 24 hours a day so technically I'm always "at work" even when I'm not (if that makes sense).
 
Being self employed and working from home, technically I don't walk out the door. When I finish work really depends on the current workload, as it stands at the moment that's starting at 8am and finishing sometime after I post this reply 5 days a week for quite a while (and has been for quite a while). At least I get paid by the hour!
 
Where I worked on my placement between my 2nd and 3rd years of Uni...

4. Hours of Work
4.1 The normal working week is 37.5 hours comprising 5 days of 7.5 hours each. The normal office
hours of work are 0900 − 1730, Monday to Friday with an unpaid lunch break of one hour.
4.2 Notwithstanding sub−clause 4.1 above, when working at clients' premises, you are required to
attend for the normal working hours of the client's personnel unless agreed otherwise in writing with a
Partner.
4.3 You are required to work such hours as may be necessary or appropriate from time to time to
carry out your duties properly and effectively. The working time principles are detailed in the
Working Time Consulting, Enterprise & Solutions Workforces policy (Policy 1131).

The reality of it.... get in anywhere between 8am and 9:30am depending on what needs doing for the day. If I've a meeting at 9 for instance I'd come in earlier to prepare.

A few times I found myself leaving the house at 6am to catch a train and be at a client site at the other end of the country for 9am or something like that, and I had a few 6am starts where I had to be on site monitoring a system from that time, in which case I'd travel the night before and stay in a hotel.

Most evenings I finished between 6 and 6:30, maybe once a week staying until 7ish. Occasioanlly I'd still be in the office at 9:00pm. At that point I'd pack up, go home, have dinner and then sometimes carry on working on my laptop until the early hours - this was a rarity though, maybe half a dozen times in a year.

On Fridays the afternoons were generally pretty relaxed and used for meanial tasks, no client meetings scheduled or anything like that, and all being well leave the office 2 or 3 pm, although on a busy week it'd be 5:30, but not later than that on a Friday.

I'd say the average working week over my year there would be about 45 hours.

If one week was particularly busy but the next was quiet, I might spend an afternoon or day working from home doing routine/repetitive stuff in front of the Tv with an eye on my email and phone in case anything important came up.

Overtime isn't paid, but the basic sallary and other benefits made up for this somewhat.

Despite the hours I'm heading back to work for the same place when I graduate as I don't see it as a big deal. Maybe that'll change overtime, but having been there a year I know that for the timebeing at least it doesn't bother me.
 
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phykell said:
"May well" isn't good enough I'm afraid. Loyalty from the company is a myth these days with bosses more concerned with saving a few quid than keeping their staff happy or even treating them with respect. As I've said, if you know of a good employer who does treat his staff well and does respect them as individuals then unfortunately, they are a dying breed. I believe (this is my own experience of course) that the vast majority of companies have poor management and even poorer employee relations. We've lost something from years ago and that's because we are tending to ape our cousins from across the pond. .....
Well, from my perspective, "may well" will have to be enough, because while this is part of the selection process for promotion, it's far from the only factor. Also, I can't say more than that, because even in companies where it's true, it isn't universal. So much is down to local line management.

As for the dying breed, you may be right. I've always taken the view that what staff give to the company and what the company gives to staff (above and beyond contracted time and pay I mean) MUST be a reciprocal thing. I take your point about companies that take, take, take from staff, and then expect even more. But the converse is true, too. Staff are employed to do certain hours and get paid for it. Don't tell me that many people don't take sickies, or that every employee spends every minute of the working day actually working .... because I won't believe it. Employers aren't the only ones to take, take, take where they reckon they can get away with it.

As an employer, I've always taken great care to give plenty of benefits beyond contracted pay and benefits for contracted hours. For instance, my staff get golf club membership and I'm quite happy to see staff out on the golf course in an afternoon where things are quiet and schedules permit. The converse side of that is that when all hell breaks loose, I expect all hands to the grindstone. I get it, too. This is because staff know full well which side of their bread is buttered. My company consists mainly of highly skilled specialists, and of course, the requisite support staff. The support staff are relatively easy to replace if need be, but the specialists aren't. So I pay better than competitors and provide better benefits than competitors, and therefore I have staff that are quite keen not to work elsewhere. Result? Dramatically reduced costs, overhead, disruption and impact on schedules from having to recruit, train and familiarise new staff.

I end up with a very happy workforce, and a much easier management life for myself as well. It makes me pretty popular with staff (;)) ..... and it's actually pretty cost-effective, too.

I find a happy, content and well-paid workforce pays dividends, and keeps costs down. And, my company is one of the "cousins" from across the pond. :D


But there's a converse side to your comments about management watching every last penny, too. Sometimes, there's no choice. It all depends on the business you're in. IT these days is largely a commodity business. There are a LOT of companies out there offering most services, and getting contracts often means being viciously price-competitive. If the customer pares prices to the bone in a contract, an employer HAS to keep a very close eye indeed on costs, or he ends up making a loss on the contract. Sometimes it's better to make a small profit requiring costs to be viciously curtailed, and that implies a hard-nosed attitude. If you don't, the company goes bust and that certainly doesn't do employees any favours. A hard-nosed attitude isn't always about squeezing the most out of staff just to make extra profit and pay a bit better dividend. And even paying better dividends has implications, not least of which is a healty share price which makes raising capital necessary for expansion a lot easier. And so on. My point is that even with hard-nosed cost-conscious management, there's often more to the picture than meets the eye.

I'm lucky in that I'm not in that situation. I charge through the nose for our services, because I know that supply is limited, and we're (in my view, at least) the very best. I treat staff very well indeed, but I can afford to on our margins. If our contracts were tightly costed, I may well not be able to afford to be generous (even if that generosity has a large element of self-interest in it).
 
Rotty said:
too right :D




Engineer on major UNIX systems and storage , all systems up I sit about at home , system on it's arse I stay till it's fixed

Same here *nix, when everything is working, then 8-6 , ( contracted 9-5.30 ) just to get a parking space. No point trying to rush home in the traffic.

When there is a problem, its all the hours I can until its fixed. Although we have only had 1 week outage in 3 years and that was an HP SAN raid controller corruption ( both redundant controllers in 1 week ).
 
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