Soldato
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I've been waiting for GPU pricing to return 'to normal' since 2013........
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When will GPUs return to normal pricing....
- Thread starter Nexus18
- Start date
I am a big believer in the economics that volume drives prices down. Gaming sales drive console sales and PC GPU sales, less sales, the higher you pay in the long term.
We need a few beers and a pub to discuss this properly but forced console shortages at retail outlets during Christmas is nothing new, it creates a 'mania' around a product at Christmas and helps to boost sales longer term through PR exposure. I hope we can agree on this as I think there is just too much history here to argue otherwise.
Scalpers know it too and they also know that the budget for a parent scraping around trying to buy an Xbox/PS and a couple of games for little Timmy is different to the budget Joe Bloggs PC enthusiast from OCUK who dropped £2k on a titan the other year, only to have it blown away by a £450 replacement this year and then paid 'a little more than they wanted' on a £1,900 Palit 3090. All things considered these people are chewing £1,400-1,500 per year just in GPU depreciation and are fair game for scalpers because the mentality when assessing the value of a purchase is entirely different.
If you are a family man with two kids that's a purchase you'll need to hide from the missus or, not make at all. On the other hand, paying £100 over the odds for an Xbox/PS on the other hand is a no-brainer if it means no Xbox Christmas Morning.
I personally don't think that console shortages are down to components or supply chain issues and that over time we can look back on this latest console shortage and have a laugh about it as some of us did during the Dreamcast '99 shortage where i had to go buy a U.S.A model for £450 (over double retail) Christmas week 1999 due to Sega's ongoing distribution problems.
If you look at longer term trends in gaming, its clear where the structural decline is and where the opportunities are:
It might be too soon to call but it is entirely possible that the next generation of games consoles will be ARM based, because Sony and Microsoft must, at some point, enter (or in Sony's case re-enter) the mobile gaming market. Nintendo called it right with the Switch, they were so far ahead of everyone elses thinking that people thought they were crazy to release an underpowered ARM based console but Nintendo are now in pole position after a painful transition.
This is why I believe (and others probably too) Nvidia needs ARM, it will allow them to go from being totally removed from what Sony/Microsoft are doing to be, potentially, inside every gaming device on the planet. If you look at the above, it would mean that Nvidia ARM CPU's (licensed or directly designed) are inside all Mobile and Console devices.
It's daunting in some respects but at the same time, it might mean that more discrete GPU wafers get given to the PC Hobby Market and only to us, not split with the console market.
Strangely, a taste of the future is already here with the Macbook Pro M1, it has a fully integrated ARM CPU and Apple GPU. I think this is the template for the next Xbox and Playstation as it allows them to fully embrace mobile gaming and this would be the catalyst for higher PC GPU prices.
As it stands right now, volume drives costs and there is so much volume for AMD and Nvidia, its hard to see prices staying high for long.
WOW i didn't realise that Arcade died so long ago (about 20 years ago)
Plus it HAHa at all them PC gaming is dieding threads i seen as PC gaming from that Graph looks to be bigger now then it has ever been
It even bigger then console gaming From that graph it looks like console gaming haven't increased over the last 20 years which doesn't seem right as just about every person or house hold i know now has a game console
(even a lot of females have a game console these days
)
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One of those three you mention appears to be doing quite well.
Of the remaining two, I would confidently predict one to remain a niche (for cockpit sims where it excels), and the other to remain bound by the laws of physics (lagtastic, so not suitable for FPS, and constrained by this country's shocking broadband).
Deleted member 66701
Deleted member 66701
From that graph it looks like console gaming haven't increased over the last 20 years which doesn't seem right as just about every person or house hold i know now has a game console
(even a lot of females have a game console these days
In the early 90's, nearly everyone I knew owned either a Mega Drive, SNES or Amiga (I wonder if they are including the Amiga in the console bit of the graph or the PC bit? I reckon the console bit).
Associate
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- Nottingham
i wouldnt take the graph as 100% accurate, i would suggest its a close idea much like the steam chart, but we have no idea where the figures behind it come from.
could even be a prediction for 2020 done in 2017 for example..
could even be a prediction for 2020 done in 2017 for example..
exactly, they just huge in space cost.
I am also starting to think the monitor industry needs to stop supplying base's or at least make it an option, because of the vesa mount system, one could have one base they move from monitor to monitor, and would save money this way as well as keeping a base they like.
Soldato
- Joined
- 22 Nov 2018
- Posts
- 2,841
From that graph it looks like console gaming haven't increased over the last 20 years which doesn't seem right as just about every person or house hold i know now has a game console
(even a lot of females have a game console these days
The graph is showing profit not market share. Far more people have consoles now but they're buying less games. Huge games like Fortnight and Warzone are free. Also people are using consoles for other things like Netflix.
Obviously they still make profit from free games but the graph has absolutely no reflection on market share.
WOW i didn't realise that Arcade died so long ago (about 20 years ago)
Plus it HAHa at all them PC gaming is dieding threads i seen as PC gaming from that Graph looks to be bigger now then it has ever been
From that graph it looks like console gaming haven't increased over the last 20 years which doesn't seem right as just about every person or house hold i know now has a game console
(even a lot of females have a game console these days
mobile revenue is so high due to the revenue model, it heavily favours the model most of us hate, where free or low upfront cost, but then addiction mechanics to keep you spending on microtransactions.
My 12 year old niece spends a small fortune on these microtransactions in the free Roblox games
GPU's in general have a really weird selling method. Years ago when a new card was about to come out in a lot of instances the older cards got sold off for cheap, i remember big deals on the Geforce 2 ultra before the Geforce 3 came out. That no longer happens, these days cards just get more expensive when they get phased out for some reason. Just look at the radeon vii listing on here, its about a grand, not in stock though. Same with the 2080 ti's they have left, they're either more expensive than they were or have maintained the same price.
Soldato
- Joined
- 6 Jan 2012
- Posts
- 5,505
RTX 2080 was $699 when released in 2018, so 3080 msrp is ok..... retailers price hikes should level out in 3 months.
It kind of happened on the 1000 series, 1080ti's were been sold for £500, I think the only time they were at that price point since launch, but it likely hurts the vendors, when old stock is sold cheap, so I think now stock is never allowed to get high, to avoid it happening. What we seeing happening is more and more aggressive moves to keep prices as high as possible, the old natural market forces no longer apply.
This is one of the reasons I think people are in la la land where they think nvidia is trying to push out these as fast as they can and at one point everything will be in stock ready to order for next day with much lower prices, wont happen.
I also seem to recall people were saying by christmas all back orders would be filled and would be stock ready to buy, we can see we still a long long way away from that.
20 years ago, manufacturers kind of had to guess how much was needed, if they got it wrong and made too many, then consumers were winners. now its a lot more scientific, pre order systems exist to gauge demand, and then effort is made to avoid over flowing channels.
Remember when ocuk "found" a few strix 1080ti's in their warehouse (7 or 8 of them iirc)? They had them up for sale then increased the price by 100+ after they seen they were selling. Makes me wonder what's going on in the warehouse when a few grands worth of gpus can go missing then suddenly show up in time to be gouged.
Yeah, although I think the holding back stock is further up the chain. The problem you described though has clearly been a problem for a while, if you look at pricewatcher websites for pc components, the pricing is less stable than stocks on a stock market. Pretty much every uk retailer seems to either have automated algorithms to keep adjusting price, or have someone sitting there making adjustments based on demand to maximise every penny of profit.
It’s a revenue chart but the revenue for mobile is being driven partially by the model but the real story is the sheer number of devices.
In the Amiga/mega drive days we never saw these numbers of mobile devices, if you said to someone in 1989 there would be 3.2 billion mobile gaming devices in 2020 they would think it was a decimal point error.
Punting 2k GPUs and £70 deluxe digital editions of PC games seems like a lucrative market on the surface but really, the action is elsewhere.
I am a big believer in the economics that volume drives prices down. Gaming sales drive console sales and PC GPU sales, less sales, the higher you pay in the long term.
We need a few beers and a pub to discuss this properly but forced console shortages at retail outlets during Christmas is nothing new, it creates a 'mania' around a product at Christmas and helps to boost sales longer term through PR exposure. I hope we can agree on this as I think there is just too much history here to argue otherwise.
Scalpers know it too and they also know that the budget for a parent scraping around trying to buy an Xbox/PS and a couple of games for little Timmy is different to the budget Joe Bloggs PC enthusiast from OCUK who dropped £2k on a titan the other year, only to have it blown away by a £450 replacement this year and then paid 'a little more than they wanted' on a £1,900 Palit 3090. All things considered these people are chewing £1,400-1,500 per year just in GPU depreciation and are fair game for scalpers because the mentality when assessing the value of a purchase is entirely different.
If you are a family man with two kids that's a purchase you'll need to hide from the missus or, not make at all. On the other hand, paying £100 over the odds for an Xbox/PS on the other hand is a no-brainer if it means no Xbox Christmas Morning.
I personally don't think that console shortages are down to components or supply chain issues and that over time we can look back on this latest console shortage and have a laugh about it as some of us did during the Dreamcast '99 shortage where i had to go buy a U.S.A model for £450 (over double retail) Christmas week 1999 due to Sega's ongoing distribution problems.
If you look at longer term trends in gaming, its clear where the structural decline is and where the opportunities are:
It might be too soon to call but it is entirely possible that the next generation of games consoles will be ARM based, because Sony and Microsoft must, at some point, enter (or in Sony's case re-enter) the mobile gaming market. Nintendo called it right with the Switch, they were so far ahead of everyone elses thinking that people thought they were crazy to release an underpowered ARM based console but Nintendo are now in pole position after a painful transition.
This is why I believe (and others probably too) Nvidia needs ARM, it will allow them to go from being totally removed from what Sony/Microsoft are doing to be, potentially, inside every gaming device on the planet. If you look at the above, it would mean that Nvidia ARM CPU's (licensed or directly designed) are inside all Mobile and Console devices.
It's daunting in some respects but at the same time, it might mean that more discrete GPU wafers get given to the PC Hobby Market and only to us, not split with the console market.
Strangely, a taste of the future is already here with the Macbook Pro M1, it has a fully integrated ARM CPU and Apple GPU. I think this is the template for the next Xbox and Playstation as it allows them to fully embrace mobile gaming and this would be the catalyst for higher PC GPU prices.
As it stands right now, volume drives costs and there is so much volume for AMD and Nvidia, its hard to see prices staying high for long.
I remember buying space invaders for the Commodore PET (Late 1970s) and there were plenty for Sinclair and Commodore home computers as well, the first IBM compatables such as the Amstrad 1512 had plenty of games available for them as home computers as well. The graph doesn't seem to show it taking off until 1982 at the earliest.
Soldato
- Joined
- 12 Jun 2008
- Posts
- 3,011
Very interesting, thanks for sharing.
Kind of depressed to see mobile gaming is so popular. Candy crush is to gaming to what heat magazine is to a good book IMO. But clearly that's where dat wedge is, I suppose.