Where the hell is NAVI???????????

[humbug]

I just want to upgrade from a 980Ti with decent performance at a sensible price, there is simply nothing on the market that offers that right now and Navi is looking like it will fall short too

I'm in the same boat, a worthwhile upgrade for us might be the RTX 2070 at 30% faster, but at £500 for that nVidia can #### off, really a proper upgrade would be the RTX 2080 but at £650?????? yeah... pick a kidney, any kidney....

 

[LePhuronn]

Sensible prices are largely a thing of the past, and it's only going to get worse.

Which is why AMD would be idiotic to charge Nvidia prices for Navi. It will just perpetuate the craziness and won't gain them any market share.

 

[KillBoY_UK]

Which is why AMD would be idiotic to charge Nvidia prices for Navi. It will just perpetuate the craziness and won't gain them any market share.

They did for VII

 

[Phixsator]

They did for VII

Because they had too. The darn thing is to expensive to built if the prices for HBM and such are true of course. If AMD is willing to sell 6 core /12 thread CPUs for peanuts I am fairly sure they are going to take the same approach with Navi if the manufacturing cost allows for it which I don't see why it shouldn't. There are so many people on old kepler and Maxwell hardware that wants to upgrade but can't or wont afford the Turing price tag. It would be stupid not to cater to these people since they already do that on the CPU side of things.

 

[LePhuronn]

They did for VII

*sigh* I was waiting for that. Have you not been keeping up?

Radeon VII is a PR stunt. It's not a planned, sustainable product. It's not an explicit piece of engineering used for an explicit gaming card purpose, and was only made possible by the perfect storm of Nvidia's RTX failings and greed that opened up a window of opportunity. Get out something that competes with an Nvidia product that's only a couple of months old, big bragging rights for the first 7nm gaming card, throw impressive-sounding numbers around like 16GB of 1Tb/s bandwidth and undercut Nvidia by a couple of quid. Job done, AMD are back in the mix.

Furthermore, pricing Radeon VII any lower than what they've done would have significant knock-on effects for Navi and subsequent actual planned products regarding spec and price and the perception thereof.

 

[nashathedog]

I just want to upgrade from a 980Ti with decent performance at a sensible price, there is simply nothing on the market that offers that right now and Navi is looking like it will fall short too

It depends on what you call decent, taking into account how the 980ti's performance is trending downwards as you can see when comparing it to the 1070 (it once matched) in a lot of newer titles I'd say a £400 Vega 64 would be a decent upgrade, more so when you take the three free games you can sell for £40 into account. That knocks it down to £360 & then you can get £100 of that back by selling the 980ti while it's still considered relevant meaning you've only spent £260 and you can probably get a bit more for the 980ti depending on brand, model & condition etc. Personaly I'd feel as lot more confident going forward with a Vega 64 than a 980ti.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/sapp...hbm2-pci-express-graphics-card-gx-38j-sp.html

 

[Zernath]

Which is why AMD would be idiotic to charge Nvidia prices for Navi. It will just perpetuate the craziness and won't gain them any market share.

Agreed. But both companies are still acting as if mining is a big thing, and I don't see prices going back to their pre-mining levels any time soon. Not if people keep buying them.

If the next generation of consoles are cheaper than a single PC component.... well, there's a thought!

 

[LePhuronn]

Agreed. But both companies are still acting as if mining is a big thing, and I don't see prices going back to their pre-mining levels any time soon. Not if people keep buying them.

AMD will have to force pre-mining prices otherwise they're not gaining market share. I fear it is literally that black and white.

 

[FoxEye]

Still no concrete news then? Not surprised given it's coming out near the end of the year/early next year.

 

[LePhuronn]

Still no concrete news then? Not surprised given it's coming out near the end of the year/early next year.

Sounds like you have some concrete news then if you're able to make such a statement

 

[craigyhay]

hope not a long wait on navi, bought a gtx 1060 3gb for £90 second hand to tie me over for now, but im certainly hungry for more speed specially as id prefer to up my resolution from 1080p to atleast 1440.

 

[Brazo]

hope not a long wait on navi, bought a gtx 1060 3gb for £90 second hand to tie me over for now, but im certainly hungry for more speed specially as id prefer to up my resolution from 1080p to atleast 1440.

And it’s not like such cards exist now so yep well worth waiting for

I really don’t see the point of Navi (if the rumours are true of course!) it will bring a 2016 range of performance options that already exist from both vendors in what has recently become quite a crowded market.

A market that already has some power efficient and cost effective options too so those reasons went out the window a long time ago.

 

[FoxEye]

Sounds like you have some concrete news then if you're able to make such a statement

Not not concrete, but there have been persistent rumours of a Q4 release unless there are further delays. And the latest rumours are saying this also.

Generally the most pessimistic rumours about AMD tend to be closest to the truth.

The most optimistic rumours about an AMD release are generally furthest from the truth.

This is what experience of previous AMD releases has taught me! Believe the worst case rumours. They will be the most accurate.

 

[D.P.]

And it’s not like such cards exist now so yep well worth waiting for

I really don’t see the point of Navi (if the rumours are true of course!) it will bring a 2016 range of performance options that already exist from both vendors in what has recently become quite a crowded market.

A market that already has some power efficient and cost effective options too so those reasons went out the window a long time ago.

The purpose of Navi is not so much for the consumer but to improve AMD's margins. Vega 56/64 and Polaris 570/580/590 are all relatively expensive to produce with large dies, and vega expensive HBM+interposer. They have high power requirements necessitating bigger more expensive power delivery and cooling. AMD's margins on these are anemic (except perhaps 590).

A direct node shrink to 7nm will lead to smaller dies. Unfortunately, 7nm is still not quite at full maturity for big chips like GPUs and the cost is much higher than previous nodes, so yields have to be very high for the node shrink to offer much better economics. Wants that happens by the end of the year, a quick node shrink of the current GCN with a few tweaks/fixes and a GDDR6 memory interface will allow cheaper cards and better margins for AMD. The consumers would only see a small part of the cost savings.

Also, a move to GDDR6 might allow AMD to reduce memory interface and so use fewer DIMMS to get sufficient bandwidth. This would see AMD offer similar memory sizes to Nvidia, the 580 could in theory be repaced with a 6GB GDDR6 setup and offer more performance at lower costs.

 

[Bacon?]

I'm looking forward to seeing the potential efficiency improvements to come from this. If it's an iteration upon Polaris but where they dont drive the volts through the roof to make the product better compete it could be great! Polaris was very good in terms of perf per watt when you undervolted and underclocked it

 

[kevman]

Because they had too. The darn thing is to expensive to built if the prices for HBM and such are true of course. If AMD is willing to sell 6 core /12 thread CPUs for peanuts I am fairly sure they are going to take the same approach with Navi if the manufacturing cost allows for it which I don't see why it shouldn't. There are so many people on old kepler and Maxwell hardware that wants to upgrade but can't or wont afford the Turing price tag. It would be stupid not to cater to these people since they already do that on the CPU side of things.

Be interesting to know what price the vii would have gone for if turing had been more in line with previous structure e.g. £700-800 for ti. Think they would have taken a loss on the new flagship??? Amd probably breathed sigh of relief when nvidia pricing structure for turing was released

 

[D.P.]

Be interesting to know what price the vii would have gone for if turing had been more in line with previous structure e.g. £700-800 for ti. Think they would have taken a loss on the new flagship??? Amd probably breathed sigh of relief when nvidia pricing structure for turing was released

They woudln't have released it

 

[D.P.]

I'm looking forward to seeing the potential efficiency improvements to come from this. If it's an iteration upon Polaris but where they dont drive the volts through the roof to make the product better compete it could be great! Polaris was very good in terms of perf per watt when you undervolted and underclocked it

Whatever reasons AMd have to maintain high voltage still persist on 7nm with the Radeon 7, so I doubt anything will change on that front.

The 7nm process would allow them to reduce power by 50% or performance by 25-30% at same power, and select a tradeoff along this Pareto front. If they go for too much performance then don;t expect any power savings, but personally it would be nice to see say a 10% increase in performance and a 30% reduction in power.

 

[LePhuronn]

Be interesting to know what price the vii would have gone for if turing had been more in line with previous structure e.g. £700-800 for ti. Think they would have taken a loss on the new flagship???

They wouldn't have even bothered, it's only through the perfect storm of lacklustre performance of RTX tech, little adoption of RTX tech in games, token improvements to traditional raster performance and greedy pricing has there even been a window of opportunity for AMD to release something. If any of the above things was different, Radeon VII wouldn't have a place in the market.

 

[LePhuronn]

Whatever reasons AMd have to maintain high voltage still persist on 7nm with the Radeon 7, so I doubt anything will change on that front.

Perhaps not. Vega 20 is largely Vega 10 shrunk down to 7nm with more compute capabilities added so the core was never a purely gaming design, and certainly the 7nm shrink was always destined for compute cards. So I think the high voltage is partly a throwback to simply how Vega operates and also to crank the clock speeds up to "gaming card" rather than "compute card".

From what little has been discussed, Navi is a different beast in that it's designed specifically for 7nm and also as a pure gaming arch. With all of the extraneous compute capabilities removed (or should I say never added in the first place), there's not as much silicon to power, so shouldn't (in theory) require as much juice to run it.

...but personally it would be nice to see say a 10% increase in performance and a 30% reduction in power.

Realistic. I think everybody would be happy if we only needed a single 8-pin PCIe connector. But I gotta say I do like the idea of RX580 performance running on 75W purely from the PCIe slot (leaked RX 3060).