Poll: Which is the better visual upgrade, HDR 10 or Ray Tracing?

[Haggisman]

For streaming I don't know what changes, but I can't imagine it's totally painless and hassle free. For the TV the big Q is whether the local dimming algorithm can keep up in game mode or if it gimps itself so that input lag isn't sky high. You can see in the previous image what I mean, you have 2 premium 8K TVs both in game mode but only one can keep the picture quality the same in both game mode & movie mode. Besides Sony TVs & a single Samsung model (Q90T), I haven't seen TVs be able to keep up the same PQ in both modes, talking about non-OLED.

To test it's simple: watch this video on the TV and switch between the TV's game mode & movie/cinema mode, and see if you can spot any differences particularly in relation to blooming.

https://youtu.be/VOBytpDiDuw

Thanks, I'll give that a go.

Possibly a stupid question, but watching that on my monitor in HDR - should that not look the same as when I'm running the game? Because it doesn't - it looks far better, and how I would expect the game to look with HDR switched on.

 

[Curlyriff]

As much as I like the concept of Ray Tracing coming from the fact I use it to render building images for work and all that and it can look great, HDR is bar far the better tech out the two to go with. But you really need HDR600 or better to get any real benefit. The problem is there really are not the monitors out there that support this tbh. There is the Asus ProArt but that is 16:9 4k resolution, oh and costs £3k!!

Until they can get it to a sensible price £500-600 for a proper HDR OLED 21:9 34-38" monitor with Dolby Vision I will be on pesent settings for HDR.

 

[Haggisman]

Now this is interesting. Playing with random settings in The Division 2, and stuck it in fullscreen windowed mode with HDR on. OMG, it works?!

 

[Poneros]

Thanks, I'll give that a go.

Possibly a stupid question, but watching that on my monitor in HDR - should that not look the same as when I'm running the game? Because it doesn't - it looks far better, and how I would expect the game to look with HDR switched on.

You'd think so but it never works out that way, I think it's to do with what other settings are changed when the guy records vs what you get in your own game & setup. In some cases it looks fine, like in this video (and why I suggested it) but sometime it looks broken. HDR recording is not quite 100% figured out yet in general imo.

Now this is interesting. Playing with random settings in The Division 2, and stuck it in fullscreen windowed mode with HDR on. OMG, it works?!

Definitely do exclusive full screen. The good thing about Ubisoft games it that they allow HDR switching in the actual game rather than needing to turn it on in Windows. But that's more a consequence of them still maintaining true fullscreen exclusivity which for DX12 games in general just doesn't exist because that's what MS decided to change it to.

 

[Haggisman]

Definitely do exclusive full screen.

But it doesn't work properly in exclusive fullscreen

Fullscreen with HDR switched off - looks ok
Borderless window with HDR switched off - looks ok

Fullscreen with HDR switched on - looks grey and washed out
Borderless window with HDR switched on - looks like HDR

Edit: I wonder if it's something to do with the uplay overlay

 

[Pottsey]

That's not the games, that's your display. I've played both of those with HDR and they look amazing.

Some I've played recently are horizon zero dawn, cod mw, cod black ops, gears 5, RE2, doom eternal, borderlands 3, microsoft flight simulator, star wars squadrons

all of the above should be blowing your socks off with their HDR and if they're not then it's your display, not the game.

No its not just the displays its very much the games and/or windows at fault in a lot of cases. Window's is known to be buggy with HDR and many games have fake HDR or flaky HDR like Division. There are mass's of reports of HDR problems for gaming and the Division seems to be a problem case that works for some people and is a nightmare for others. Windows seem to be struggling to switch correctly between SDR and HDR profiles for some games. Some of it is bad HDR screens but its doesn't seem to be all the screens fault. Given the hassle of getting HDR working its why I voted RT.

 

[Rroff]

TD2 and HDR is a bit of a pain to get working properly - definitely overlay stuff can cause issues.

 

[Pottsey]

But it doesn't work properly in exclusive fullscreen

Fullscreen with HDR switched off - looks ok
Borderless window with HDR switched off - looks ok

Fullscreen with HDR switched on - looks grey and washed out
Borderless window with HDR switched on - looks like HDR

Edit: I wonder if it's something to do with the uplay overlay

That's really interesting, like you I have been having massive problems with Division no matter what is was grey and washed out with HDR. Just done what you have and 100% the same results.

Fullscreen with HDR switched off - looks ok
Borderless window with HDR switched off - looks ok

Fullscreen with HDR switched on - looks grey and washed out
Borderless window with HDR switched on - looks like HDR.

I think people like Poneros are wrong and in fact its software bugs.

 

[ANDREW GREEN]

Steve from HardwareUnboxed describes ray tracing as 'slightly better shadows for a huge drop in performance' and Paul from NotAnAppleFan reckons he can't notice much difference in Control.

I don't have a ray tracing card but I can't notice much diffence im the video comparisons, unless there's reflections and then it's quite allot better. But how often are you looking at reflections

A comparison of Cyberpunk, on versus off and it looks marginal

 

[Woodsta888]

Steve from HardwareUnboxed describes ray tracing as 'slightly better shadows for a huge drop in performance' and Paul from NotAnAppleFan reckons he can't notice much difference in Control.

I don't have a ray tracing card but I can't notice much diffence im the video comparisons, unless there's reflections and then it's quite allot better. But how often are you looking at reflections

A comparison of Cyberpunk, on versus off and it looks marginal

That videos concentrates more on the difference between the game trailer and the gameplay and the game isnt even released yet.

Not an applefan is just some guy on the internet talking. He doesnt do any of his own stuff, just uses other stuff from the internet.

This is a better vid for ray tracing differences. Reflections and real time rendering of light paths is what ray tracing is all about, not so much shadows.

This one is better for ray tracing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNSpiret-9g

 

[Woodsta888]

double post

 

[Grim5]

Steve from HardwareUnboxed describes ray tracing as 'slightly better shadows for a huge drop in performance' and Paul from NotAnAppleFan reckons he can't notice much difference in Control.

I don't have a ray tracing card but I can't notice much diffence im the video comparisons, unless there's reflections and then it's quite allot better. But how often are you looking at reflections

A comparison of Cyberpunk, on versus off and it looks marginal

6 month old video

 

[Pottsey]

But it doesn't work properly in exclusive fullscreen

Fullscreen with HDR switched off - looks ok
Borderless window with HDR switched off - looks ok

Fullscreen with HDR switched on - looks grey and washed out
Borderless window with HDR switched on - looks like HDR

Edit: I wonder if it's something to do with the uplay overlay

Just been testing your fix in other games. Not only is Division now working but the other game I had problems like Divivinty Original Sin 2 now works in HDR with borderless window. Although that game still needs HDR manually switching on before entering the game at least it works now. All those people saying its not the games but the display are wrong. It very much is the games and windows that are the problem not our screens.

No idea why HDR has so many problems in fullscreen.

 

[Metalface Mark]

HDR in windows is infuriating, EA do it right, their games you dont have to switch it on in windows to use it.

Ive also never played an Assasins creed game where HDR is usable on PC.

 

[Haggisman]

Just been testing your fix in other games. Not only is Division now working but the other game I had problems like Divivinty Original Sin 2 now works in HDR with borderless window. Although that game still needs HDR manually switching on before entering the game at least it works now. All those people saying its not the games but the display are wrong. It very much is the games and windows that are the problem not our screens.

No idea why HDR has so many problems in fullscreen.

That's good to hear, I wonder what the common factor is... Maybe switching to windowed mode lets Windows take over driving the HDR or so.

Will have a further play with disabling overlays etc when I get a chance. Out of interest, what gpu do you have?

 

[hyperseven]

HDR in windows is infuriating, EA do it right, their games you dont have to switch it on in windows to use it.

Ive also never played an Assasins creed game where HDR is usable on PC.

HDR worked fine on both Origins and Odyssey

 

[Grim5]

HDR in windows is infuriating, EA do it right, their games you dont have to switch it on in windows to use it.

Ive also never played an Assasins creed game where HDR is usable on PC.

same here, every AC game I tried on pc the HDR was totally broken but works fine on consoles

 

[K1LaW8tt5]

I'm glad the fact HDR in its current state is trash on windows is starting to get some attention.

HDR works best with the games that don't require you to enable it in display settings I think.
Different games require different methods to get it working and even then simply alt+tabbing out if game can completely break it.

 

[chrcoluk]

RT has always been overhyped I feel, in affect its like an ultra2 setting, but the difference is made bigger because games that implement RT tend to nerf the non RT lighting/shadows to what they would have been 2-3 years ago..

 

[Rroff]

RT has always been overhyped I feel, in affect its like an ultra2 setting, but the difference is made bigger because games that implement RT tend to nerf the non RT lighting/shadows to what they would have been 2-3 years ago..

Proper RT isn't overhyped at all - the current incarnations though are lacking and limited.

When we have implementations that can move away from traditional techniques and use a full range of scattered/bounce light, refraction and caustics, etc. today's games will quickly look decidedly dated.