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Poll: Which is the better visual upgrade, HDR 10 or Ray Tracing?
- Thread starter LtMatt
- Start date
It's less than 1% now (any Turing and ampere)
HDR, and it's not even close. In fact it can be so transformative that I'll take it even over path-tracing. To me having HDR on is like finally getting glasses when your vision goes, everything finally looks right again instead of the smushed together image you'd have otherwise. SDR is sorta similar because it just has such a limited dynamic range, it's all much of a muchness in its uniformity. It honestly feels like with SDR your eyes are just not being properly used.
Ray tracing feels more like a cherry on top, while HDR is more of a better cake. Screw the cherry, gimme better cake!
I dare anyone to play in a dark room, with a proper HDR display, something like The Division 2 w/ neutral lighting in night scenes (esp if it's flares going off), Doom Eternal, Tetris Effect, Metro Exodus, Far Cry 5, or Jedi Fallen Order when you light up your lightsabre for light in the caves, and say they'd take ray tracing over HDR. It's just insane!
Ray tracing feels more like a cherry on top, while HDR is more of a better cake. Screw the cherry, gimme better cake!
I dare anyone to play in a dark room, with a proper HDR display, something like The Division 2 w/ neutral lighting in night scenes (esp if it's flares going off), Doom Eternal, Tetris Effect, Metro Exodus, Far Cry 5, or Jedi Fallen Order when you light up your lightsabre for light in the caves, and say they'd take ray tracing over HDR. It's just insane!
It's similar, most intended purposes yeah you can just interchange those terms. HDR10 was used for TV's and Vesa Display HDR1000 for PC monitors but they achieve almost the same requirements.
The reason why HDR400 screens look so bad is because the black levels are far too high as you can see in this specification sheet below for Vesa Display HDR standards. HDR400 really should not exist, it gives this entire standard setting a bad reputation.
Soldato
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doesn't this all depend on what hardware you have access to? I am lucky enough to have a 3080 and an OLED and can say both add to the overall experience when implemented well.
If properly implemented ray tracing can bring a similar level of advancement to the visuals - I can't really do it justice with the limitations of the Quake 2 engine and the limits of my own artistic abilities but the little touches like scattered light off chrome surfaces and indirect lighting bring a whole new dimension. I would definitely take a proper ray tracing implementation over HDR 100% of the time though ray tracing + HDR takes things to another level yet again.
EDIT: For the record I have a Philips 436M6 and tried The Division with neutral lighting.
I think it's worth nothing that when Hardware Unboxed says "Ray Tracing" they are referring to the ray tracing seen in AAA games today and whether its worth it.
It's technically possible to full path traced an entire scene but far from practical and the ray tracing seen in games today is far away from what is technically possible if you have unlimited GPU resources (lets just imagine we can do ray tracing on a 10 thousand teraflop gpu right now).
Also Rroff, what's going on with the shadows coming from those wine glasses, it looks so artificial and fake lol
It's technically possible to full path traced an entire scene but far from practical and the ray tracing seen in games today is far away from what is technically possible if you have unlimited GPU resources (lets just imagine we can do ray tracing on a 10 thousand teraflop gpu right now).
Also Rroff, what's going on with the shadows coming from those wine glasses, it looks so artificial and fake lol
Nah they are different things, one is the brightness the other is the codec or whatever they call it.
Lots of things:
-They didn't really put much optimisation into glass in the renderer in Quake 2 RTX as the stock maps don't use it much and it is mostly thick stuff where it is used.
-Caustics for both development time and performance reasons use a fast approximate implementation (there is nowhere in the stock game that uses them like that screenshot)
-Then there is also I'm still experimenting with this stuff and don't have everything nailed down implementation wise (I can probably improve on them with a bit more work)
-Quake 2 has a lot of limitations with the geometry engine map brushes have a minimum resolution of like 1 inch and meshes have low precision coordinates which causes problems - stuff like static meshes aren't actually supported so I had to hack in some stuff for loading models for decorative use.
HDR, and it's not even close. In fact it can be so transformative that I'll take it even over path-tracing. To me having HDR on is like finally getting glasses when your vision goes, everything finally looks right again instead of the smushed together image you'd have otherwise. SDR is sorta similar because it just has such a limited dynamic range, it's all much of a muchness in its uniformity. It honestly feels like with SDR your eyes are just not being properly used.
Ray tracing feels more like a cherry on top, while HDR is more of a better cake. Screw the cherry, gimme better cake!
I dare anyone to play in a dark room, with a proper HDR display, something like The Division 2 w/ neutral lighting in night scenes (esp if it's flares going off), Doom Eternal, Tetris Effect, Metro Exodus, Far Cry 5, or Jedi Fallen Order when you light up your lightsabre for light in the caves, and say they'd take ray tracing over HDR. It's just insane!
Yeah HDR is colours coming off the screen and lighting up the room like your actually stood next to them. Of your stood next to a fire in the game you feel like you are actually stiff next to a fire.
Just brings everything to life.
Some fancy ray tracing reflections will never compare.
I really like the ray tracing on cod campaign but it would be nothing without the HDR bringing it to life.
My favourite is borderlands with some added contrast enhancement, some real crazy colours that you can't get without HDR
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Yes but that was a Nvidia thing only affecting Maxwell and Pascal no such hit on any AMD GPU.
Most of the people never had proper HDR sets with actual well implemented HDR games to compare so what are we talking about again? Most also still dont understand what HDR really is and think it’s that half life lost coast ‘bloom’ effect. Others think its ‘super bright super vivid super contrasty image’, again not the case. Even funnier is showing HDR to a person who likes to put on dynamic contrast, vivid everything and max brightness colors on their ****** tvs and tell them why HDR is better .. good luck with that.
Also another problem. You can show someone raytracing on youtube, you cant show HDR on a non HDR / crappy HDR TV.
Personally, both. Ps5 on my oled / 2080 in some pc games. Wouldnt want to give anything up. Too bad that on PC even top end monitors costing more than OLED tvs still offer worse HDR perf than the previously mentioned so... for my PC i ended up with a ultrawide 3440x1440 gsync 120hz monitor. Not using it for much tho, just work, wow and diablo.
Everything else goes on my OLED. Almost every new game supports HDR and makes the image look tons better. Then with RT on top yummy.
If i really had to choose cause.. idk.. then id go with HDR
Also another problem. You can show someone raytracing on youtube, you cant show HDR on a non HDR / crappy HDR TV.
Personally, both. Ps5 on my oled / 2080 in some pc games. Wouldnt want to give anything up. Too bad that on PC even top end monitors costing more than OLED tvs still offer worse HDR perf than the previously mentioned so... for my PC i ended up with a ultrawide 3440x1440 gsync 120hz monitor. Not using it for much tho, just work, wow and diablo.
Everything else goes on my OLED. Almost every new game supports HDR and makes the image look tons better. Then with RT on top yummy.
If i really had to choose cause.. idk.. then id go with HDR
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Soldato
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HDR10 is just the container no? Like Dolby Vision? Didn’t think there was a minimum spec for it, the playback device and display just needs to support it
I don't understand how you can prefer that left hand side washed our horrible HDR look and dislike bright and colorful right hand side SDR look. At least in Division and a lot of games that is how it is for HDR gaming. My SDR games look like the right hand side and HDR games look like the left hand side. Barely any game seem to get it right. Destiny is the only game I have found so far that looks better in HDR. The Division 2 always goes washed out and horrible looking x10 worse like that left hand side.HDR, and it's not even close. In fact it can be so transformative that I'll take it even over path-tracing. To me having HDR on is like finally getting glasses when your vision goes, everything finally looks right again instead of the smushed together image you'd have otherwise. SDR is sorta similar because it just has such a limited dynamic range, it's all much of a muchness in its uniformity. It honestly feels like with SDR your eyes are just not being properly used.
Ray tracing feels more like a cherry on top, while HDR is more of a better cake. Screw the cherry, gimme better cake!
I dare anyone to play in a dark room, with a proper HDR display, something like The Division 2 w/ neutral lighting in night scenes (esp if it's flares going off), Doom Eternal, Tetris Effect, Metro Exodus, Far Cry 5, or Jedi Fallen Order when you light up your lightsabre for light in the caves, and say they'd take ray tracing over HDR. It's just insane!
HDR video is amazing. HDR gaming is very hit and miss at the moment.
Fair enough, though I'd put you at the edge with that Philips (no pun intended).
Obviously if the turning point is full scene pathtracing then HDR is easily the right choice for today.
The right-side image is supposed to represent how you'd see HDR.
What display do you use?
Which is why I hate those fake screenshots as the left hand side represents what many HDR games look like. SDR games never look washed out and horrible like that left hand side but some HDR games do. Its not my screen as HDR video and some HDR games like Destiney look great. Division 2 though looks like that washed out left hand side. If I get chance later I will take a screenshot of both side by side. Its all over the forums when people turn on HDR its like the black level is raised to high, much higher then SDR and so everything goes washed out. Which is why I have all but given up on HDR for games at the moment.Fair enough, though I'd put you at the edge with that Philips (no pun intended).
Obviously if the turning point is full scene pathtracing then HDR is easily the right choice for today.
The right-side image is supposed to represent how you'd see HDR.
What display do you use?
Plus there are all the problems with how badly windows handles HDR and struggles to switch between SDR and HDR gaming. So you end up with worse looking SDR games and worse looking HDR games as windows gets muddled up.
Easiest way to explain would be like this.
SDR - black and white tv
Crappy HDR Tvs - has black, white, red and blue as colors, but most things look black and white
Proper HDR tvs - has all the black to white hues ( all grays ), and all colors
So you have to have a good display to be able to show off HDR. ******/ mediocre tvs will read the format but the image they will show will be limited to the capabilities of said display, in some cases making the image look worse in HDR vs SDR while in others barely better.
@Pottsey your tv is most likely your problem. Either that or you’re the kind of person i was talking about in my previous post who likes his tvs on dynamic contrast vivid colors and everything turned to max and enjoys that black crush/smushed highlights and burnt colors with no hue variation to speak of.
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Having recently played Halo 3 on my PC without HDR and then on the XSX with HDR, I would say HDR by a mile. I'd take the glorious HDR in Valhalla for example over the excessive RT in Legions that adds little.