why all the hate for hs2?

Its not about time saved, its about capacity the time saved is a bonus and irrelevant, The rail network is creaking at the seems totally down lack of investment in infrastructure and NIMBY`s. Why do you think they can get away with robbing people on train tickets. The rail prices in the UK are a utter utter joke.
 
To answer OP's question, because its not worth the money for the little benefit it would give.

We really needed HS3 first, then after that re-look at HS2.

But I have to wonder why are we still piling money in to systems like this when we should be pushing forward with full fibre and having people work from home? People are literally traveling from their homes to sit in front of a box at work, madness

4G was wasted, 5G will be the same. New technology means nothing if we don't fully harness it.
 
It's going to the wrong places.

There are already excellent transport links between London, Birmingham, and Manachester. What is needed is better cross country links. Try getting from Norwich, to Cardiff, Exeter, or even Leeds and Hull. The road infrastructure is shockingly poor. The trains are slow. It used to be 4 hours between Norwich and Birmingham, you could do the same journey via London, which is a much longer distance, and it would take a similar time.

Norwich to Cambridge is only 60 miles, but around 1h15 on a train. That is pathetic. In a modern western country this journey should be 30-40mins max.
 
stockhausen said:
Really :confused:
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It depends (Like with the "Does it/doesn't it" immigration/free movement argument)

It is perfectly possible for national GDP to go up, and still leave many people, if not even the significant majority, worse off.

Similarly, say with post-Brexit. it is also possible to have a fall in national GDP that leaves many people, if not the significant majority, better off.

It just depends on how the costs and benefits are proportioned and distributed across the country and the population.

I have no doubt that some mandarin has worked out that HS2 will boost "National GDP" (in much the same that that a similar calculation might be made with regard to the benefits of immigration/free movement)

However I also have no doubt that (like with immigration/free movement) this, so called, boost will only benefit a small number of people and will come at a huge cost cost to a vast swathe of the wider population.
 
Orionaut said:
HS2 will be of little benefit to "The North" All it will do is allow a relatively small number of wealthy London professionals, who will be able to afford the silly season ticket prices, to move to the midlands, commute into London, and price all the local people out of the property market. very few people "In the North" want HS2. What they would like is improved local services. Not ones that will only benefit the top 1% of earners to the detriment of everybody else. :/
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englishpremier said:
It's going to the wrong places.

There are already excellent transport links between London, Birmingham, and Manachester. What is needed is better cross country links. Try getting from Norwich, to Cardiff, Exeter, or even Leeds and Hull. The road infrastructure is shockingly poor. The trains are slow. It used to be 4 hours between Norwich and Birmingham, you could do the same journey via London, which is a much longer distance, and it would take a similar time.

Norwich to Cambridge is only 60 miles, but around 1h15 on a train. That is pathetic. In a modern western country this journey should be 30-40mins max.
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That's kind of the point of the whole scheme, it's more of a capacity project. The biggest benefit comes from shifting all the fast services off existing lines, freeing up capacity for more local stopping services. I can't defend the spiralling cost, but I'm yet to hear a decent alternative. Most lines, especially the mainlines HS2 'mirrors', are already at or over capacity.

As for the north, well a little research will show that there's plenty of money already being spent upgrading the infrastructure and rolling stock up there. Over £1bn has already been spent on new trains for Merseyrail, Northern and TPE, and Network Rail have been spending billions upgrading infrastructure and stations in the north (the GNRP).
 
I can understand the hate.

People's houses are being torn down. If however you're lucky enough to be in the 'important zone', it's okay, they building HS2 underground just for you, so you and your rich house doesn't get affected.

Not to mention the amount of land it's running through.
 
englishpremier said:
It's going to the wrong places.

There are already excellent transport links between London, Birmingham, and Manachester. What is needed is better cross country links. Try getting from Norwich, to Cardiff, Exeter, or even Leeds and Hull. The road infrastructure is shockingly poor. The trains are slow. It used to be 4 hours between Norwich and Birmingham, you could do the same journey via London, which is a much longer distance, and it would take a similar time.

Norwich to Cambridge is only 60 miles, but around 1h15 on a train. That is pathetic. In a modern western country this journey should be 30-40mins max.
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This is my objection too.

Everything revolves around getting people into London.

Many, many places need serious upgrades, like the whole of bleddy Cornwall, yet are being overlooked for any kind of investment. At it stands, we are soon to become the only part of the UK that isn't electrified, and for that reason all the SW franchise operators all have to keep investing in hybrid locomotives, when everybody in the entire rest of the country will be on electric only.

Not to mention the lack of a plan for places like Dawlish, the sole track in and out of the county. Options exist to (re)open other lines to increase capacity and resilience, but nobody is interested.

Because literally everything Westminster commissions and approves is for the benefit of London first and foremost. **** the rest of the country, and doubly **** them if they aren't commuting into London.
 
matt_fsr said:
It's been quoted as costing £32Bn

When did the last large scale government project come in on time, on budget?

It'll probably cost more like £100Bn in reality, which is money we don't really have to squander around.

And remind me, how exactly will I benefit from this? I use the train perhaps once a year....
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Nice quess 8 years ago it was going to more like £100Bn.

As for why I dislike HS2 it is going within a mile of where I live, but there nearest station is over 30 miles away with no easy way to get there.
 
Glaucus said:
That's already happening. This isn't the only goverment project happening.
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8 years later and we have naff all fiber broadband in this country, unless you count FTTC (yuck :p)

The current plan is something like 50% fiber by 2035. Ambitious. (I'm ignoring Boris's "promise" because there's more chance of me becoming Emperor of the Martian Colonies in the same time-frame).
 
FoxEye said:
This is my objection too.

Everything revolves around getting people into London.

Many, many places need serious upgrades, like the whole of bleddy Cornwall, yet are being overlooked for any kind of investment. At it stands, we are soon to become the only part of the UK that isn't electrified, and for that reason all the SW franchise operators all have to keep investing in hybrid locomotives, when everybody in the entire rest of the country will be on electric only.

Not to mention the lack of a plan for places like Dawlish, the sole track in and out of the county. Options exist to (re)open other lines to increase capacity and resilience, but nobody is interested.

Because literally everything Westminster commissions and approves is for the benefit of London first and foremost. **** the rest of the country, and doubly **** them if they aren't commuting into London.
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Start a campaign to get the house of lords moved to Cornwall. You'll have better transport links in no time :p
 
SPG said:
The rail prices in the UK are a utter utter joke.
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I don't remember the last time I used the train in the UK, I was probably a teenager.
always seen it as being the expensive option.

in other countries I've experienced trains were pretty much the cheapest way to travel and considered a normal method of public transport.
in the UK its more like trains are perceived as something only for commuters.
 
explicit4u said:
As for the north, well a little research will show that there's plenty of money already being spent upgrading the infrastructure and rolling stock up there. Over £1bn has already been spent on new trains for Merseyrail, Northern and TPE, and Network Rail have been spending billions upgrading infrastructure and stations in the north (the GNRP).
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WOW, £1bn. So, the same as a few central London Crossrail stations, then?
 
Fusion said:
WOW, £1bn. So, the same as a few central London Crossrail stations, then?
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Northern and TPE would take a billion each just to modernise to thirty years ago.

It almost looks like some of the complaints brought up here were discussed a number of weeks back in the election campaigns, pledges that could have brought some infrastructure in line with our European neighbours. Instead, we've still got **** ideas like HS2 being floated and I'd bet won't benefit a single person, even if it gets built.
 
FoxEye said:
8 years later and we have naff all fiber broadband in this country, unless you count FTTC (yuck :p)
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I don't even have that. I can't get fibre of any flavour despite living in the middle of a city, and according to the BT Openreach people they have no date for switching my cabinet over. And to make matters even worse, ours is the only street around here that can't get fibre purely because BT ****** up and skipped our cabinet by mistake when they were activating the area.
 
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