why all the hate for hs2?

[Greebo]

Thanks for that, an interesting and slightly worrying read considering how badly the Labour party was slated for thinking of such a thing.

To be fair Labour went the extra mile and said the monthly charge would be free, That wasn't needed and was what got them the most dirision. The vast majority of the monthly cost we all pay for the internet is so that the ISP can recoup the cost of the infrastructure. If the Govt is picking up the £33bn bill then there is no need for them to charge £30-£50 per month. They obviously have some running costs, maintenance, customer services etc but I would have bought into £33bn to get everybody on full fibre and then we have to pay £5 -£10 per month for it if we want it.

Throw with the benefit of enabling more people to work from home, businesses to have more business conferencing rather than travelling and you probably dont need the extra capacity HS2 would bring plus its much better for the environment. Win win all round.

I would fully get behind any government suggesting we spend £33bn on full fibre,. Even the Tories are given BT £8bn to get them to put full fibre in the remote premises where it doesnt stack up economically for BT to install it.

Since those will be the premises which give the least return for every pound spent, out current Govt must think its still a worthwhile investment and worth spending that £8bn on.

 

[Orionaut]

Throw with the benefit of enabling more people to work from home,

How realistic is this in practice?

People "Working from home" for the most part, do not create anything. They can only ever really manage people on the "Shop Floor" who do the actual work.

I can certainly see how there are roles that could be fulfilled by home working. but it is a role that only a small proprtion of the working population will ever be able to fulfill.

Actual, practical, production is not going to be one of them!

 

[Azza]

How realistic is this in practice?

People "Working from home" for the most part, do not create anything. They can only ever really manage people on the "Shop Floor" who do the actual work.

I can certainly see how there are roles that could be fulfilled by home working. but it is a role that only a small proprtion of the working population will ever be able to fulfill.

Actual, practical, production is not going to be one of them!

Manage the robots doing the production.

 

[Destination]

Is this really costing in the region of £200000 per metre of track?

How much does Crossrail cost per metre of track?
surely the whole thing could be utterly subterranean and cheaper?

 

[Orionaut]

Manage the robots doing the production.

Are you being Ironic?

"Robot" was after all originally the word for worker (In much the same way that "Typewriter" was the name for the operator rather than the machine)

Nevertheless, whoever/whatever is doing the actual work. people "Working at home" are basically insignificant to the process.

I DO work at home. I have a workshop and premises. But this is totally different from what most people talking about "Home Working" are thinking about.

The idea that any significant proportion of the working population could ever do anything usefully productive "At Home" bonded to their personal work stations (Via Ankle bracelets and/or whatever. I have actually seen this !) and just working via a keyboard is utterly laughable. It really is!

 

[Doobedoo]

And therein lies the problem. Shortsightedness and everybody is out for what they can make. If your thinking this, the bigger fish creaming in billions off the back of it are also thinking it. Its a colossal waste of money but it lines peoples pockets, therefor it will go ahead.

This is exactly what I said when people where getting in a tizzy about Harry and Megan receiving public money.

Don’t worry yourself, if the money isn’t being wasted on Harry it damn sure will be wasted elsewhere.

I say every time someone from our government wants to start a vanity project using public money they should have to put their second and third homes up as collateral, if the project comes in over budget then they should lose their second, third and forth homes as consequence.

Seems everyone is winning apart from those actually paying the taxes.

 

[Orionaut]

I say every time someone from our government wants to start a vanity project using public money they should have to put their second and third homes up as collateral, if the project comes in over budget then they should lose their second, third and forth homes as consequence.

Back in the day of "Proper Democracy" (Classical Greece)

Pretty sure that at least one of the city states had a rule that if anybody wanted to propose a new law, they had to do so while standing on a stool with a noose round their neck.

If the vote went against them, they got to hang!

You know, Actually, Now you mention it.....

 

[Doobedoo]

Pretty sure that at least one of the city states had a rule that if anybody wanted to propose a new law, they had to do so while standing on a stool with a noose round their neck.

If the vote went against them, they got to hang!

You won’t catch me wasting my time on this meaningless voting malarkey but you can be damn sure I’d take time out to watch this .

Just for perspective.

• The 22 richest men in the world have more wealth than all the women in Africa.
• Women and girls put in 12.5 billion hours of unpaid care work each and every day —a contribution to the global economy of at least $10.8 trillion a year, more than three times the size of the global tech industry.
• Getting the richest one percent to pay just 0.5 percent extra tax on their wealth over the next 10 years would equal the investment needed to create 117 million jobs in sectors such as elderly and childcare, education and health.

“Our broken economies are lining the pockets of billionaires and big business at the expense of ordinary men and women. No wonder people are starting to question whether billionaires should even exist,” Behar said.

https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/worlds-billionaires-have-more-wealth-46-billion-people

Perhaps HS2 can help to bring inequality back to sensible levels but more likely the divide will increase further than the increase in cost for HS2.

 

[Orionaut]

You won’t catch me wasting my time on this meaningless voting malarkey but you can be damn sure I’d take time out to watch this .

 

[garnett]

Are you being Ironic?

"Robot" was after all originally the word for worker (In much the same way that "Typewriter" was the name for the operator rather than the machine)

Nevertheless, whoever/whatever is doing the actual work. people "Working at home" are basically insignificant to the process.

I DO work at home. I have a workshop and premises. But this is totally different from what most people talking about "Home Working" are thinking about.

The idea that any significant proportion of the working population could ever do anything usefully productive "At Home" bonded to their personal work stations (Via Ankle bracelets and/or whatever. I have actually seen this !) and just working via a keyboard is utterly laughable. It really is!

Eh?

It's fairly unclear, but it's *almost* like you're saying any work that isn't producing a physical item isn't work.

 

[chroniclard]

Millions of people work from home.....

 

[Orionaut]

Eh?

It's fairly unclear, but it's *almost* like you're saying any work that isn't producing a physical item isn't work.

Think about all the "Stuff" in your life that is important to you.

How much of it was made in factories, how much of it was made in people homes?

I am not saying that "Home working" has no place, simply that it only ever has the possibility of only ever being only a minor part of the ultimate picture.

 

[chroniclard]

Think about all the "Stuff" in your life that is important to you.

How much of it was made in factories, how much of it was made in people homes?

I am not saying that "Home working" has no place, simply that it only ever has the possibility of only ever being only a minor part of the ultimate picture.

Most of its made in china.

 

[Orionaut]

Most of its made in china.

Well, until it isn't!

Either because "Atishoo", or because they just decide to cut us all off anyway...!

As I said earlier, "We" (Britain and the European powers in general) utterly humiliated the Chinese government in the mid 19th century and there is absolutely no doubt in my mind at all that they will have long memories and that they are carefully planning their revenge.

I would like to think that we might all be able to go forward forgiving what might have happened nearly 200 years ago, but, at the same time. I would also like to think that, for the time being, we would still be keeping our powder dry!

:/

 

[chroniclard]

Well, until it isn't!

Either because "Atishoo", or because they just decide to cut us all off anyway...!

As I said earlier, "We" (Britain and the European powers in general) utterly humiliated the Chinese government in the mid 19th century and there is absolutely no doubt in my mind at all that they will have long memories and that they are carefully planning their revenge.

I would like to think that we might all be able to go forward forgiving what might have happened nearly 200 years ago, but, at the same time. I would also like to think that, for the time being, we would still be keeping our powder dry!

:/

I have no idea what you are on about.

 

[Shoza]

Fibre Broadband > HS2 any day. Save the £67b and get every home connected to a real fibre connection.

You could use some of the £67b change to also fix commercial broadband in major cities to enable more working from home. Better for the environment too! My office is in central Manchester and the best BT can offer our office of 130 people is 100/100 :/

 

[garnett]

Think about all the "Stuff" in your life that is important to you.

How much of it was made in factories, how much of it was made in people homes?

I am not saying that "Home working" has no place, simply that it only ever has the possibility of only ever being only a minor part of the ultimate picture.

So you're saying we should eschew all conventional thinking on the best way forward for high-income economies?

Can you expand on that?

 

[Em3bbs]

Yeah why don't we all just live in small interconnected pods, with food delivered straight to our mouths. Our kids don't need to go to school, we can just stick then in front of a screen all day where they can learn! We wouldn't need to go on holiday, because we can see everything in glorious 4k VR via the internet. No more relationships needed, we have Pornhub! It would be fantastic for the environment. Seems like a great idea.

 

[Orionaut]

I have no idea what you are on about.

So you're saying we should eschew all conventional thinking on the best way forward for high-income economies?

Can you expand on that?

Happy to do so, but tomorrow.



PS

Yeah why don't we all just live in small interconnected pods, with food delivered straight to our mouths. Our kids don't need to go to school, we can just stick then in front of a screen all day where they can learn! We wouldn't need to go on holiday, because we can see everything in glorious 4k VR via the internet. No more relationships needed, we have Pornhub! It would be fantastic for the environment. Seems like a great idea.

Currently as a result of family logistical problems.

My 12 year old nephew is indeed doing something very like this. (On-Line school)

It seems actually to be working reasonably well...

But I have to say I find the practicality really rather disturbing!

The Jetsons looked cool in the 1960's. I am not so sure about it today!

 

[Greebo]

Are you being Ironic?

"Robot" was after all originally the word for worker (In much the same way that "Typewriter" was the name for the operator rather than the machine)

Nevertheless, whoever/whatever is doing the actual work. people "Working at home" are basically insignificant to the process.

I DO work at home. I have a workshop and premises. But this is totally different from what most people talking about "Home Working" are thinking about.

The idea that any significant proportion of the working population could ever do anything usefully productive "At Home" bonded to their personal work stations (Via Ankle bracelets and/or whatever. I have actually seen this !) and just working via a keyboard is utterly laughable. It really is!

granted factory workers can’t work from home but loads of people can. My other half does and at least 10 people at my place of work could.