Soldato
Communist China seems to be doing alright...
Why are some people so against others doing well
- Thread starter Catanonia
- Start date
Communist China seems to be doing alright...
Generalist garbage my friend.
Soldato
Not even remotely off tangent. You are complaining that the rich are treated with prejudice yet seemingly think others being prejudiced is not related to your discussion as raised by your OP.
Of course it's selfish, but too many people link selfishness with always being bad and wrong. Selfishness is a trait that everyone has to varying degrees.
So whilst it may be selfish for rich people to hoard their money for themselves and their family, there isn't anything *wrong* with it, as it's their money to hoard if that's how they wish to use it.
Why is it also right for the rich to give more "proportionately" when a proportional amount will still be significantly more than the non-wealthy?
Soldato
- Joined
- 21 Apr 2007
- Posts
- 6,603
Usually it's jelousy or insecurity, or they are not themselves where they want to be in life so it comes natural to hate others who are.
Take this for example, say you have a group of 5 friends and you all eat a trash diet and you're all obese. What happens when 1 guy decides to start taking action in his life? he cleans up his diet, goes to gym starts becomming confident. The other 4 are going to hate because why do they want to be reminded that they are a piece of ****, it's too painful to have it rubbed in their faces...."Just stay fat bro! why do you want lose all that weight, why get jacked you are fine the way you are stop being so insecure man". That all translates to, **** you are stunting on my lazy ass and now I feel pain because I know I should be doing it with you but I want to go back to rationalising being fat and eating McDonalds because it's far easier and gives me my dirty little high of good emotions.
Nobody wants to eat a salad, does that give you that little dirty boost? nah dude slam down some more sugar and mcdonalds! I get to feel good right now screw putting in work over the long term even though it pays off 100000x more than eating that big mac. Google hyperbolic discounting. "Working hard pays off later, but procrastination pays off now"
When other people see others doing well they are faced with 3 choices.
1: They either accept that person is doing well and give a nod of approval and carry on with their life doing nothing or perhaps they don't care maybe they are not motivated by the same driving forces.
2: They accept that person is doing well, look at why and think how can I change my own life to become more successful (This doesn't mean becoming super rich It can take many forms of just things you want to do / accomplish) and be doing what I really want to do? this requires incredible willpower, which most people lack.
3: They hate, it's far easier to make nasty comments than it is to take full responsibility of your life. People then try to rationalise their mediocre existence and then say well you know... I just wasn't born with money so he's just lucky! (Not saying money / being rich is the be all end all but I'm saying perhaps the rich kid is doing something he's really passionate about because he was fortunate enough to have funding) so i'm going to sit here and do nothing and be bitter and write nasty comments on youtube. Little do they realise that attitude is exactly what pushes them further down. It's nothing more than a vicious cycle which ends up with you being depressed.
TL DR. Human psychology
LOLOLOL
Edit: And yes I agree there is unfair ******** happening in the world. Look at sweatshops in china etc where people are treated like dirt for others to profit from. However what I am saying is if you are unfortunate enough to be stuck in such a place complaining not help you, but changing your attitude and taking massive action will, Yes it'll be hard and it'll suck BALLS but what choice do you really have?. I've been there myself....
This I agree with too, some people have benefited a lot from societies structure and I think yes you may have worked hard, but without all your employees your company would be non existent. I think there is a balance to be struck. Those higher up in the wealth ladder should bear a little more responsibility than those at the bottom working for minimum wage.
Take this for example, say you have a group of 5 friends and you all eat a trash diet and you're all obese. What happens when 1 guy decides to start taking action in his life? he cleans up his diet, goes to gym starts becomming confident. The other 4 are going to hate because why do they want to be reminded that they are a piece of ****, it's too painful to have it rubbed in their faces...."Just stay fat bro! why do you want lose all that weight, why get jacked you are fine the way you are stop being so insecure man". That all translates to, **** you are stunting on my lazy ass and now I feel pain because I know I should be doing it with you but I want to go back to rationalising being fat and eating McDonalds because it's far easier and gives me my dirty little high of good emotions.
Nobody wants to eat a salad, does that give you that little dirty boost? nah dude slam down some more sugar and mcdonalds! I get to feel good right now screw putting in work over the long term even though it pays off 100000x more than eating that big mac. Google hyperbolic discounting. "Working hard pays off later, but procrastination pays off now"
When other people see others doing well they are faced with 3 choices.
1: They either accept that person is doing well and give a nod of approval and carry on with their life doing nothing or perhaps they don't care maybe they are not motivated by the same driving forces.
2: They accept that person is doing well, look at why and think how can I change my own life to become more successful (This doesn't mean becoming super rich It can take many forms of just things you want to do / accomplish) and be doing what I really want to do? this requires incredible willpower, which most people lack.
3: They hate, it's far easier to make nasty comments than it is to take full responsibility of your life. People then try to rationalise their mediocre existence and then say well you know... I just wasn't born with money so he's just lucky! (Not saying money / being rich is the be all end all but I'm saying perhaps the rich kid is doing something he's really passionate about because he was fortunate enough to have funding) so i'm going to sit here and do nothing and be bitter and write nasty comments on youtube. Little do they realise that attitude is exactly what pushes them further down. It's nothing more than a vicious cycle which ends up with you being depressed.
TL DR. Human psychology
LOLOLOL
Edit: And yes I agree there is unfair ******** happening in the world. Look at sweatshops in china etc where people are treated like dirt for others to profit from. However what I am saying is if you are unfortunate enough to be stuck in such a place complaining not help you, but changing your attitude and taking massive action will, Yes it'll be hard and it'll suck BALLS but what choice do you really have?. I've been there myself....
This I agree with too, some people have benefited a lot from societies structure and I think yes you may have worked hard, but without all your employees your company would be non existent. I think there is a balance to be struck. Those higher up in the wealth ladder should bear a little more responsibility than those at the bottom working for minimum wage.
Last edited:
Permabanned
Communist china has been doing well since it has embraced the free market. If you had kept up with chinese economy you would know that there recent advancements have come about due to low regulation and encouragement of free market, not communism. Although the political structure remains non democratic the political structure does not encourage communistic economic policies any more. Ironically the west which was largely built off the backs of the industrial revolution and the free enterprise system now seems more likely to embrace socialism and highly regulated markets which are a kin to communism. With milliband the leader a major political party in the uk, openly being a pro communists marxist. You may wonder how this happened, as i do.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_economic_reform
Soldato
You make it sound like all the wealthiest people in society are on PAYE.
A valid point, why is this deemed to be right that more wealthy "should" give more to the less so. Is this a modern thing that media has taught us or is it a humanity thing that we all "feel" we must do to some degree or another ?
What is it that some of the voices we hear actually want. To sit at home and let 30% of the population go out and work hard and share out all of their earnings to everyone no questions asked so everyone gets the same ?
Soldato
The system is designed so there are always poor people within a society regardless of how hard they work, which I guess some find unfair.
Soldato
Society has a cost to run (assuming we want to maintain our crime rates, health rates & workforce talent pool), we either tax those able more or employers pay their staff more (who would then contribute a greater amount).
We are of course open to slashing our society further, but when demand for goods & services diminishes & the crime rate sky-rockets I'll be here saying "I told you so".
We are of course open to slashing our society further, but when demand for goods & services diminishes & the crime rate sky-rockets I'll be here saying "I told you so".
Noblesse oblige, y0.
Giving proportionately more to the state is not an objectionable concept. The magnitude of that proportion can be, however..
mmm, true, without less well off people, who would do the jobs the wealthier wouldn't want to do. Kinda Lord and Servant scenario where most countries have evolved from. The haves and have nots. The problem is the distinction of the wealthier from the silver spooners and the grafters.
From here you will always get resentment and jealousy amongst some of the population.
Last edited:
You've inferred it, but I didn't make it sound like that. Even with the creative tax schemes they have, they will be paying significantly more in to the system, but that's not really part of the proportional argument.
I feel like it's very much a case of people wanting stuff they don't have, and feeling that it's unfair that they don't have, whilst others do.
I think this where all the issues over tax avoidance stems, I noticed a while back, that the government were trying their best to make it socially unacceptable to partake in tax avoidance, and using emotive language to rile up the public in the hope that they'd start putting pressure on companies to stop their actions.
If the government wanted it to stop, they'd legislate against it, but because they're all doing it themselves it's easier to just get the public foaming at the mouth because they know a lot of people have a "have not" mentality.
- Joined
- 4 Jan 2013
- Posts
- 3,783
I'm guessing for some its because they feel they don't have the same crack of the whip.
Eg Someone who grows up in a well to do household, can make the most of the finest education and healthcare. This along with established contacts and the social grace to know the "niceties" will have a far great advantage, not only over the bottom of the pile, but the middle class etc.
For me, I'm coming from a very large family, where my education, healthcare etc was divided up between a lot of people. My parents do not have the contacts that gives me an advantage. Therefore I will find it naturally harder to progress than the aforementioned people.
BUT, my parents went to University, they inspired me to try and do better for myself, and I've got a strong family structure. Others will perceive this as unfair etc
Basically there is no such thing a fairness, people just need to get on with their lives and do the best they can do.
Soldato
Indeed, something which people forget.
If we must have a society in which a sizeable portion are going to permanently be stuck in a life of wanting it's hardly outlandish to suggest that their quality of life is improved to a level they are able to participate in the local economy/society & enjoy life.
Redistribution is a clumsy mechanic & really should be used for those who are unable to work, a smaller difference factor between the wages at the top & bottom with a much more even tax system would be preferable (in my view).
I think there's very few people on OCuk who are genuinely upset about those who work hard and get rewarded appropriately.
The main issue is those who earn good money, have benefited from society and yet don't feel like they should give anything back.
The main issue is those who earn good money, have benefited from society and yet don't feel like they should give anything back.
I agree with this, life sometimes is not fair and there is too much of a blame culture nowadays and unwillingness to accept responsibility.
Soldato
This is just a meaningless sentiment.
"Willingness to accept responsibility" is a cop out, there are causal reasons to why people do or do not succeed in life - some are obvious, others not so much.
If life simply isn't fair then isn't that a reason for society to attempt to address that balance?.
You go off down a dark road when trying to adjust such a balance. In terms of life, I don't believe "fair" really exists.
Soldato
Because those few fortunate to be wealthy should support the disadvantaged. That's how a balanced society works.
However those at the bottom are deemed scroungers (working or not), the disadvantaged and disabled have essential services cut, yet we faun over those who tread on the backs of others to just squirrel away more and more money.
Money begets money.