Soldato
That's just a variation of the slippery slope fallacy.
While 'fair' may or may not exist (depending on your view) we can still structure society in such a way which maximises fulfilment.
Why are some people so against others doing well
- Thread starter Catanonia
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While 'fair' may or may not exist (depending on your view) we can still structure society in such a way which maximises fulfilment.
the "system" isn't designed.
thats the thing most people who whine about this big bad system don't get. there's no grand architect to it all it's a giant mess that evolves and grows the same as the rest of our culture.
governments or bodies may try to alter or influence it but these are prettyy much a gamble and guess and there are so many people always trying to work around it or twist the situation thier advantage that the outcome of many decisions and regulations can swing either way.
Soldato
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Some people just feel that there is an inherent injustice in wealth distribution, I guess.
Personally, I have no issues with good things happening to people, and I will always wish them the best. However, if their gains are ill gotten I think a line has to be drawn, but where that line is drawn will be subjective dependant on the outlook and tolerances of any given individual.
The managing director of the company I work for has lots of money, owns property all over the place and has 5 different cars to choose from each morning. He has stabbed a fair few people in the back to get there, which on the surface is immoral, but if he did not stab them first, they would have stabbed him. Business is a cut throat world and I would not be suited for it myself. Too honest for my own good, and not comfortable with trampling on others for the sake of a career.
However I fully accept there need to be people who are prepared to do it and I do not begrudge them. To each their own.
Personally, I have no issues with good things happening to people, and I will always wish them the best. However, if their gains are ill gotten I think a line has to be drawn, but where that line is drawn will be subjective dependant on the outlook and tolerances of any given individual.
The managing director of the company I work for has lots of money, owns property all over the place and has 5 different cars to choose from each morning. He has stabbed a fair few people in the back to get there, which on the surface is immoral, but if he did not stab them first, they would have stabbed him. Business is a cut throat world and I would not be suited for it myself. Too honest for my own good, and not comfortable with trampling on others for the sake of a career.
However I fully accept there need to be people who are prepared to do it and I do not begrudge them. To each their own.
But the issue here is that it would become the very definition of unfair, because to make adjustments, or structure it so that everything is "fair" would mean some people get more than others to bring them up to the same level.
Soldato
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Funniest thing is,
Society is the best it's ever been in human history, at least for us in the first world with the absolute abundance of opportunity and things you can do. Really if you are sucking balls at life you don't have an excuse.
Get off the PC games,
Stop downloading the 100th TV series to drown your sorrows in,
Stop jacking off the porn and go out and actually put effort into meeting woman,
Start reading good educational books that are positive on business/self help etc etc
Etc
Society is the best it's ever been in human history, at least for us in the first world with the absolute abundance of opportunity and things you can do. Really if you are sucking balls at life you don't have an excuse.
Get off the PC games,
Stop downloading the 100th TV series to drown your sorrows in,
Stop jacking off the porn and go out and actually put effort into meeting woman,
Start reading good educational books that are positive on business/self help etc etc
Etc
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Soldato
You seem to be mixing up the meaning of 'the same' with 'fair' - which is not always the case. Treating a person with a disadvantage the same as somebody with an advantage isn't fair (not that I really like the term to begin with, but I'll roll with it for the sake of this discussion).
It's not that simple.
While on paper it's obvious to what people should do - having the motivation required to do it is another matter.
I assume also you are a millionaire playboy?, or does this "common sense" rhetoric only stretch as far as to what you have achieved in life?.
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Exactly, I think most people don't have an issue with people doing well provided it isn't at the expense / exploitation of others.
It's all about being fair and sadly society is far from it at the moment, the odds are heavily stacked for the wealthy and connected!!
It's all about being fair and sadly society is far from it at the moment, the odds are heavily stacked for the wealthy and connected!!
Caporegime
I have no problem with other people doing well. I get jealous sometimes, we all do, there is no point denying it, but I don't have a problem with it. Good on them.
The only time I might have a problem with it is if they are publicly flaunting their success and rubbing it in peoples faces, or if they get paid what any rational person would consider an excessive amount of money (e.g, professional footballers)
The only time I might have a problem with it is if they are publicly flaunting their success and rubbing it in peoples faces, or if they get paid what any rational person would consider an excessive amount of money (e.g, professional footballers)
Soldato
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And unfortunately in the modern world I never see this changing. The only change I can see is those who are not so well off having the compulsion to better themselves and to be rewarded for it. But I also don't see that happening in the near future.
Take for example tax avoidance, anyone can do it, if they read up on it and use the same methods. If enough of the mass population did this, then things would "have" to change and the problem may get solved. But those who are not avoiding tax legally whine about those that do because they don't have the compulsion to learn it for themselves and expect to have it handed to them.
My personal thinking is that if you trust the state to look after you and your affairs rather than take matters into your own hands, then expect to be disappointed.
can i haz your instagram please, I heard you chucked some woman off a roof and she missed a pool?
I'm not mixing them up, it's just that your examples are very vague.
You need to contextualise "disadvantage" because how you've presented it leaves much to the imagination. For example, one runner is faster than another, that is their advantage, the other run is disadvantaged because of this. To level the advantage wouldn't be fair.
Soldato
How do poor people do this if the current Government is closing all the libraries?
lol, footballers aren't the problem and I'm not sure why anyone would hate on them considering the money they get hasn't been at the expensive of others (monopolizing markets, exploitation ..etc ..etc)
One of the biggest problems is super corporations like the walton family who are worth $152 billion!! This wealth would have been distributed among thousands of small but profitable business's in the past but instead it is now concentrated among a few super rich organisations that take as much as possible whilst giving back as little as possible
Good analogy, the point we are trying to make is that the REASON that one runner is faster than another in many cases is because it had years of expensive professional training and fantastic facilities where-as the less privlaged runner only had part time training when running from the fuzz around the estate
/jk
Give them BOTH the same opportunities and THEN it becomes a fair comparison !
One of the biggest problems is super corporations like the walton family who are worth $152 billion!! This wealth would have been distributed among thousands of small but profitable business's in the past but instead it is now concentrated among a few super rich organisations that take as much as possible whilst giving back as little as possible
Good analogy, the point we are trying to make is that the REASON that one runner is faster than another in many cases is because it had years of expensive professional training and fantastic facilities where-as the less privlaged runner only had part time training when running from the fuzz around the estate
/jkGive them BOTH the same opportunities and THEN it becomes a fair comparison !
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The internet
Buy "some" books instead of all on cigs / beer
The problem is that there is always another excuse for those that don't want to and people willing to gather the pitchforks for them which adds to the spiral.
They drive up the price of season tickets so one could argue the inflated football wages are at expense of the fans.
I was walking past the Newcastle stadium last night and noticed a sign "season tickets from £65 per month
how can all the chavs afford those prices
Soldato
Disadvantaged can mean a myriad of difference things but at a base level.
In this case having a lower chance to succeed due to external factors outside of their control, be that growing up in poverty, a lack of positive role models, lower intelligence (as a result of poor nutrition in early childhood), lack of teaching of temporal discounting, substandard schooling, abuse (physical, emotional, sexual or neglect) in childhood, excessive bullying during adolescence, familial criminality/substance abuse/alcoholism, disrupted family life (divorce parents at early age - messy divorce).
All these factors & many more will have an impact on a persons chance to succeed, I just favour a system which accepts at a high level that there is no such thing as an equal start & therefore ensures everybody enjoys at least a reasonable standard of living off the back of this.
Regarding the runner example, really genetic advantage does make the matches unfair - but the 100 meters isn't meant to be a 'fair' race, its' meant to see who can run the fastest (this distinction is important). While having the same training opportunities is also another factor (which could also be a counter) overall they are not comparable as life isn't a race to see who can run the fastest.
In society we wrap up a rigged race as being a shining example of a meritocratic one & then berate & insult the loser. In this 'race' we judge those who we think are 'trying to run' (ignoring that some may have crippling physical aliments which prevent it)
They drive up the price of season tickets so one could argue the inflated football wages are at expense of the fans.
I was walking past the Newcastle stadium last night and noticed a sign "season tickets from £65 per month
how can all the chavs afford those prices
£65p/m to watch Newcastle?
lol.
Soldato
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Buy them on eBay, or download them on torrent. If you don't have the internet well then that is tough, however pretty much most people have some form of access to the internet.
I'll show you my gun collection.