Why are tradesmen so expensive

[LeeUK]

Most tradesmen these days lack quality workmanship. When I look at work that has been done 30-40 years ago and compare it to recent work you can tell at has been rushed and bodged by a long shot.

Also that's if you can get tradesmen to turn up at all.

 

[Amp34]

Things like spuring off sockets are simple, but you're paying for the expertise and knowledge of a professional. If you want everything signed off it takes someone who pays literally thousands on exams and spends so much time keeping up to date with regs.

There's a lot more to it than practical work. Even so, the practical work can get a lot harder when troubleshooting a fault, I don't know about you but some lighting circuits confuse the hell out of me (if numerous switches on the same light etc).

It's like saying it's easy to become a surgeon because anyone can pick up a scalpel and slit some skin, that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Last electrical stuff I did was installing a sub panel and wiring the equivalent of an entire house (think it was around 40 plug sockets, 20 lights and about 10 switches, plus underfloor heating).

When all the regs are distilled into a simple book with diagrams it's significantly easier than it looks when there's a weighty tome that covers everything, not just residential.

Yes it's a different country but it's broadly the same system, just different regs and ways of doing things. You can still do your own electrical here and call out inspectors to get it signed off.

I understand the costs of keeping your certs up to date. My dad used to be corgi registered when he was working as a general builder but he gave up on it in the end because it just cost too much for the registration and recertification fees. They (gas safe) basically have a licence to print money, and use that licence "well", increasing the cost to the client. (Basically his comment on the matter).

 

[Adam_151]

I think the thing everyone is missing is what maccaacca was trying to say but wasn't forthright enough with it...

There is a big difference between charge out rates and what the chap doing the job earns, if you get charged £25/hour, then he is not being paid that, more likely nearer £15/hour (and when you consider the 'extra' hours he might do in the evening getting certifiation filled out its likely to be even less. So... £15/hour for 42.5 hours a week, hes effectively on 33K a year, are you telling me that a skilled professional who has trained for 4 years and probably puts in at least 50 hours a week is not work 33k? How does that compare with those on here who work in computer departments, or do coding / graphic design (or any of the other professions which ar common on this board).

If you think we are expensive, try getting costs for somethnig specialist like alterations to a fire sprinkler system, you'll then know what expensive is!!

 

[bushmins]

I think the thing everyone is missing is what maccaacca was trying to say but wasn't forthright enough with it...

There is a big difference between charge out rates and what the chap doing the job earns, if you get charged £25/hour, then he is not being paid that, more likely nearer £15/hour (and when you consider the 'extra' hours he might do in the evening getting certifiation filled out its likely to be even less. So... £15/hour for 42.5 hours a week, hes effectively on 33K a year, are you telling me that a skilled professional who has trained for 4 years and probably puts in at least 50 hours a week is not work 33k? How does that compare with those on here who work in computer departments, or do coding / graphic design (or any of the other professions which ar common on this board).

If you think we are expensive, try getting costs for somethnig specialist like alterations to a fire sprinkler system, you'll then know what expensive is!!

A fire sprinkler system is going to have big business behind it. And as we all know big business get ripped off even more than the working class, but cost for the sprinkler system will probably come out of the employees bonus. I would bet that half the suppliers and tradesmen that deal with big buisness are taking a back hander somewhere, somehow. Its just a big ol' chain of corruption.

On the odd occasion I have had to pay a tradesman to do a job I have not had too much trouble by keeping it a local small business, they are under more obligation to do it well and for the right price. I had a quote for faciers and guttering that ranged from £1000 to £9000. I worked out how much it would cost (factoring in my hourly pay in my current job) to do it myself and chose the price nearest.

 

[eddie101]

Anyone with half a brain knows that "have" and "of" aren't interchangeable.

Good to know, not really relevant, but thanks for your amazing input into the subject of the thread.

Bet you're the life of the party with facts like that

 

[spoffle]

Good to know, not really relevant, but thanks for your amazing input into the subject of the thread.

Bet you're the life of the party with facts like that

Well it was relevant in the context of having half a brain. You would think it'd be easier to understand that "have" and "of" aren't interchangeable than it would be to rewire a house.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Suck it up OP, or do it yourself. You're not fit to sharpen my chisel, peasant!

I've seen ^his chisels, Fez.... you really aren't!!

Most tradesmen these days lack quality workmanship. When I look at work that has been done 30-40 years ago and compare it to recent work you can tell at has been rushed and bodged by a long shot.

Many tradesmen cannot afford to be in apprenticeships and study positions as long as they used to, needing to get out and work in a very competitive world with numerous cowboy outfits trying to undercut them, expensive regulation and all manner of other problems that get in the way.
These days, if a proper tradesman does a proper job and charges appropriately, you'd have a proper heart attack!!

 

[Vern1961]

Another point to offset the "DIY" comments is that, particularly as people get older they may not be as capable of undertaking complex or tricky jobs and therefore prefer to get someone in to do it. Without turning into a medical thread, years of staring at PC monitors have reduced my visual capacity to do close up work, particularly for any length of time. My hands are not as flexible or adept as they once were, not to mention slight loss of feeling in a couple of fingers, means precise fixing or fastening can be a challenge. So we look at getting a tradesman in...

 

[jaybee]

I have to side with the OP as well. I think some (yes not all) tradesmen take the absolute ****. My experience with tradesmen over the years is awful.

I don't think I've ever experienced one where I can honestly say they cared about the job and doing the up most best job they could. It's all about getting it done quick as possible, and doing just enough for it to be considered "done". Then it's on to the next one. Apparently time keeping also does not apply to tradesmen. On the phone constantly during the job they are doing for you, arranging times to suit them of which they don't turn up for or turn up late.

I think the prices are high because we as Brits just take it. Someone in the trade told me that they have had issues with people not going with them because they have been quoting too low, and it concerns potential customers! We are so used to paying through the nose for basic jobs, when someone quotes low, it looks too fishy and probably a poor outfit is to be assumed. Shame. I find it also quite astonishing the amount of money some tradesmen are earning for very basic work. I'm not sure how long it will last, but I'd be pushing a lot of teens right now to looking at being an electrician/plumber. Ridiculous amounts of money for such basic work.

 

[ttaskmaster]

So we look at getting a tradesman in...

Which is all perfectly good and fine. No-one will knock you for that.
Just do your reasearch and be sure to get a good one in, even if the peace of mind costs a bit more... and don't start telling them how uneducated they are compared to a doctor, or anything!!

I don't think I've ever experienced one where I can honestly say they cared about the job and doing the up most best job they could.

Stop getting cowboys in, then.

Apparently time keeping also does not apply to tradesmen. On the phone constantly during the job they are doing for you, arranging times to suit them of which they don't turn up for or turn up late.

I've more experience with mechanics, but have seen 'behind the scenes' of other trades, too. There's a lot that delay you, much of it being your other customers and their inconsideration - People picking up/dropping their car off late and/or taking the key with them, not leaving the locking wheel nut, deciding they know what parts to order or can get them cheaper and then buying something wrong, wanting a long explanation and a guided tour of exactly why they need a new swingarm.... then there's traffic, queues and lost/wrong orders at the parts shop, a myriad hidden problems behind the one you've been hired for.... Plus every customer thinks you have a private secretary permanently able to answer the phone, take bookings, etc, from 7am through to 11pm at least, especially on Bank Holidays.

Someone in the trade told me that they have had issues with people not going with them because they have been quoting too low, and it concerns potential customers!

There are times when it should, since my own business failed due to cowboys undercutting us.
But equally, you can quote too high for peoples' tastes and that's where the cowboys can sweep in. It's only later when all their hidden charges come up.

I find it also quite astonishing the amount of money some tradesmen are earning for very basic work.

I got hired by one woman who wanted me to change a lightbulb in her dining room. She wanted a full cost estimate and everything... and she was delighted (see what I did there) to find I only charged £15, including "cost of materials".

 

[mattyy]

I have to side with the OP as well. I think some (yes not all) tradesmen take the absolute ****. My experience with tradesmen over the years is awful.

I don't think I've ever experienced one where I can honestly say they cared about the job and doing the up most best job they could. It's all about getting it done quick as possible, and doing just enough for it to be considered "done". Then it's on to the next one. Apparently time keeping also does not apply to tradesmen. On the phone constantly during the job they are doing for you, arranging times to suit them of which they don't turn up for or turn up late.

I think the prices are high because we as Brits just take it. Someone in the trade told me that they have had issues with people not going with them because they have been quoting too low, and it concerns potential customers! We are so used to paying through the nose for basic jobs, when someone quotes low, it looks too fishy and probably a poor outfit is to be assumed. Shame. I find it also quite astonishing the amount of money some tradesmen are earning for very basic work. I'm not sure how long it will last, but I'd be pushing a lot of teens right now to looking at being an electrician/plumber. Ridiculous amounts of money for such basic work.

I think this probably sums up why. No ones is going to work to the best, do the best job they can do or turn up on time if they are constantly being under cut on price or made to work for less. No one tells you that they are only going to pay you half on Monday because your work load isn't as high as you could manage. If you were told that then you certainly wouldn't rush to do it, or even do it at all.

Its not rocket science to realise that if i came to quote to do a job for £100 and you tell me to do it for £50, I could do it for that but I would make sure it would take me half the time to do so that I end up with the same 'per hour'. Where do you think the sacrifices are made?? I can tell you its not by knocking off the extra Mcdonalds or the difference to eating out or Lidl that night, its the quality of the workmanship and the quality of the parts you are getting (Eg a decent double socket can cost £4, screwfix do el cheapo for ~£1 - I know what I'd rather have fitted and its not the cheap option!) . Quality costs and you've got to be prepared to pay it, as it sounds you are not and you're getting cowboys who are in to do it as quick as possible with every shortcut made to cram as much work into a day as possible - its the nature of the beast with quoted work unfortunately and every thinks they are getting a good deal with it.

Also, most people these days want a free quotation. So that means the poor guy has to spend a minimum of an hour inc fuel costs, admin etc to quote for a job he may not even get. How does that get paid for? Do you fancy going to an unpaid job interview every day?

 

[TallPaul1878]

Sounds like there are a lot of people suffering buyer's remorse with their university education.

I do have sympathy. It must be difficult to do 4 years at university and come away with £30k of debt only to be stuck in a low paying job for a couple of years whilst your old school friends went into a trade and are buying their second home before you have managed to save a deposit for your first.

The problem isn't with the prices that tradesmen charge, it's with capitalism in general. If you are working for someone else then you are not getting the full fruits of your labour. Tradesmen aren't either but they are getting a lot closer than most pen pushers.

My sister has a degree in business administration. I don't know exactly because I don't talk to her much, she's a crazy cat lady, but she's earning less than my younger brother who throws suitcases onto a carousel. All that debt for nothing.

Britain is stuck in a low wage economy. Tradesmen aren't overcharging you. Your boss is underpaying you for what you do.

 

[Sider]

I am utterly hopeless with anything DIY related, I even manage to balls up putting curtain rails up. Not to mention i get a bit OCD when it comes to making sure things are perfect and look good. I am more than happy to pay more knowing that the person I hire to do the job will do a good job and take pride in their work. The issue I have is knowing this knowing that they do! Its very hard to tell who is going to go a good job and who is just going to rush it. Websites such as mybuilder help in that regard as you can see their work and other peoples reviews.

I have a university education and I work as a clinical biochemist but I have a lot of respect for people in trade and im often very envious of how easily they do things which to me looks like rocket science! People do different things, its the nature of work.. I don't see why people get all high and mighty over what they do for a living.

 

[kitfit1]

Sounds like there are a lot of people suffering buyer's remorse with their university education.

I do have sympathy. It must be difficult to do 4 years at university and come away with £30k of debt only to be stuck in a low paying job for a couple of years whilst your old school friends went into a trade and are buying their second home before you have managed to save a deposit for your first.

The problem isn't with the prices that tradesmen charge, it's with capitalism in general. If you are working for someone else then you are not getting the full fruits of your labour. Tradesmen aren't either but they are getting a lot closer than most pen pushers.

My sister has a degree in business administration. I don't know exactly because I don't talk to her much, she's a crazy cat lady, but she's earning less than my younger brother who throws suitcases onto a carousel. All that debt for nothing.

Britain is stuck in a low wage economy. Tradesmen aren't overcharging you. Your boss is underpaying you for what you do.

Yep, sums it up for the most part.
I fit kitchens for a living and at 59 years old have got all the experience i need. Have about £19,000 invested in my current van, probably about £15,000 of tools on that van, god knows how many courses i've been on over the years for different types of worktops.
If a customer is prepared to pay £10,000 to £50,000 on a kitchen, i expect they want it fitted properly. If they won't pay me the £1,500 to £2,000 a week that it will cost, then they can go and get some ex-diy that has been watching youtube vids and has spent £200 in screwfix to do it for £60 a day.
I'm sure you will love the result from your £10,000 to £50,000 investment.
Two weeks ago i had a call from a friend of one of my customers that had paid over £3,000 for Acrylic worktops, but had got some local handyman to fit them for £65 a day. I'm not going to go into what i found when i looked at them, needles to say though most of the tops are reusable, but the £700 sink is scrap and the extra worktop is another £800 plus the £900 i will want for putting it right. So that £3,900 job has now become £5,400 because some idiot decided that my £900 could be reduced by paying the local handyman £65 a day. You get what you pay for and if you don't want to pay it then don't expect it.

 

[mickyflinn]

kitfit1 i totally agree but this is my favorate part of your statement

needles to say

 

[Amp34]

I think this probably sums up why. No ones is going to work to the best, do the best job they can do or turn up on time if they are constantly being under cut on price or made to work for less. No one tells you that they are only going to pay you half on Monday because your work load isn't as high as you could manage. If you were told that then you certainly wouldn't rush to do it, or even do it at all.

Its not rocket science to realise that if i came to quote to do a job for £100 and you tell me to do it for £50, I could do it for that but I would make sure it would take me half the time to do so that I end up with the same 'per hour'. Where do you think the sacrifices are made?? I can tell you its not by knocking off the extra Mcdonalds or the difference to eating out or Lidl that night, its the quality of the workmanship and the quality of the parts you are getting (Eg a decent double socket can cost £4, screwfix do el cheapo for ~£1 - I know what I'd rather have fitted and its not the cheap option!) . Quality costs and you've got to be prepared to pay it, as it sounds you are not and you're getting cowboys who are in to do it as quick as possible with every shortcut made to cram as much work into a day as possible - its the nature of the beast with quoted work unfortunately and every thinks they are getting a good deal with it.

Also, most people these days want a free quotation. So that means the poor guy has to spend a minimum of an hour inc fuel costs, admin etc to quote for a job he may not even get. How does that get paid for? Do you fancy going to an unpaid job interview every day?

And there's the picking up and selecting materials. They may not be in the house because they're picking xyz up for the job they are doing for you. Should they charge for that, or should they end up doing that on their own time?

 

[Spook187]

Fez and Amp34 just killed the thread whilst reading, my god carry on with your plunking the keyboard in your jobs you will go far

 

[Amp34]

Fez and Amp34 just killed the thread whilst reading, my god carry on with your plunking the keyboard in your jobs you will go far

Care to quantify the issue? All I said was residential electrical was relatively easy (it is) and that I try and do all my own work because hiring someone is expensive, even though their prices are justified.

I fully understand that doing it yourself on your own house is very different to doing it for someone else however and that there are significant extra costs for someone doing it as a job (for example the time it takes to actually get the materials to do the job, you may not be there, but you're still working).

I'm also pretty sure a professional could have reworked the house faster, but it works and it's safe, so what if it took a bit of extra time.

Have a rolleyes back

 

[Solus]

In all honesty I have learned that if I want a job done properly I either do it myself or spend the same amount of time interviewing people for the job to ensure they are going to do it properly.

If it's within my capabilities I normally do it myself for this reason, only things like patios and plastering I hire for no matter what

 

[=XDC=FluphyBunny]

We have been doing up our flat for a while now and whenever I have to get someone in to do something I can't do I am absolutely amazed at how much they can charge. You can tell me that being an electrician or plumber is a skilled job as much as you like but its a really simple job. Anyone with half a brain could learn to do it very quickly.

I assume its due to supply and demand because I can't think of that many other jobs that require no real education, limited intelligence and basic training which allow you to earn as much as plumbers, electricians, carpenters etc earn.

How much are you guys paying for these trades on a day rate basis?

Talks about peoples lack of intelligence, lives in London, complains about high prices.

You couldn't make this up

Poor Fez, finally went off the deep end