Why aren't young people taking computer courses at school?

[D.P.]

What??

They only taught one religion when I was in school....

Then you should have complained to your teacher.

I learned about Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism,Taoism as well has the concepts from paganism and some of the tribal beliefs in Africa and the Amazon etc. About the only relegion that wasn't covered in detail was Christianity given an assumption most people were familiar with it. However, Christian teachings and biblical themes were used to learn philosophy and discuss topics like free-will.

 

[ANDARIAL]

Then you should have complained to your teacher.

I learned about Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism,Taoism as well has the concepts from paganism and some of the tribal beliefs in Africa and the Amazon etc. About the only relegion that wasn't covered in detail was Christianity given an assumption most people were familiar with it. However, Christian teachings and biblical themes were used to learn philosophy and discuss topics like free-will.

What!!!
They did not teach you about Satanism?
Missed out on that

 

[OspreyO]

..
So can the younger folks explain why students aren't taking these IT based GCSE subjects these days? How come the take up rate is low?

Most are not interested in tech beyond consuming content.
People on forums like OCUK are a very small minority.

 

[Haze]

Then you should have complained to your teacher.

I learned about Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism,Taoism as well has the concepts from paganism and some of the tribal beliefs in Africa and the Amazon etc. About the only relegion that wasn't covered in detail was Christianity given an assumption most people were familiar with it. However, Christian teachings and biblical themes were used to learn philosophy and discuss topics like free-will.

When we're you at school though? No such thing as other religions in school 20+ years ago

 

[Haggisman]

Hello Fresh, pizzas, Huel boxes ready meals take aways.

Thank you for proving my point

Hello Fresh - relatively healthy, but more like "Hello bland and overpriced" (yes I tried it, wasn't impressed)
Pizzas - I assume you're talking frozen, so hardly a healthy and balanced diet
Huel - sure, relatively healthy, but hardly an enticing and balanced meal "What's for dinner mum/dad? "It's protein slurry again kids!"
Ready meals - Unless you're spending a fortune then 90% bulking agent, and too much salt and sugar to cover up the fact they don't actually have any real flavour
Takeaways - Sure, if you want to be the size of a house and bankrupt

The only one of those options I'd consider feeding to my family on a regular basis is Hello Fresh, but it would triple our monthly food bill!

Maybe not cooking as a full subject (unless you want to be a chef), but it should definitely be part of a compulsory "life skills" class, along with things like financial education, basic DIY etc.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

School computer courses are basically Microsoft word, excel and PowerPoint classes. There is rarely anything transferable to the real world or interesting enough to keep their attention.

Add into that most of the youth being more aware of mobile operating systems rather than Windows. When I was at school, most people atleast had a laptop or desktop PC. Nowadays it's tablets and phones.

It appears to be becoming quite a niche area.

Yeah they're lessons for teaching old people how to use computers in my experience. Young people pick up IT stuff instantly because that's the world they've grown up in.

There are, of course, all sorts of things that are helpful to know, but show them once and they'll get it.

 

[D.P.]

When we're you at school though? No such thing as other religions in school 20+ years ago

central Scotland

 

[Terminal_Boy]

I remember doing my HND in computing at poor college and hating it, it wasn't what I was looking for. This was way back in 1999

I remember people being on the HNC version of that in the 1980s telling me it was a pretty dire course and they wanted to be there. Made me thankful that my Electrical and Electronic Engineering HNC was well-taught and interesting to me apart from the maths modules that were a total PITA.

 

[robgmun]

Not only that but very little of them have done work or self teaching outside of school hours.

I got my first PC when i was 17 back in the early 90's. I was obsessed with the thing and basically, all I did was buy PC magazines and taught myself everything. With no internet, all i could do was open the thing and learn it's hardware and tinker with Windows 3.1/95.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Thread title seems to blame the young people. The problem is that the syllabus is terrible and not at all attractive or aligned to the job market. Ironically I failed GCSE IT through lack of interest - naming a monitor a "Visual Display Unit" . I now have a plethora of IT certs and am now a senior manager within a firm that uses IT to solve business problems. I acquired most of my skills whilst at school mostly through my interests in things like ProDesktop in CAD/Design Technology. Thank god my school burnt down and we got a mobile classroom system with state of the art technology. There was a few mega-computer-geeks there too, who helped me learn by watching them and being fascinated.

We need a massive uplift in syllabus and a massive retraining of the staff that teach IT. Unfortunately the saying "those who can, do; those who can't, teach" is probably more true than not for IT courses. In my college career I only had two teachers of a batch of 10 or so who were true advocates and genuinely interested in IT as a hobby.

There are a few startups trying to disrupt this market but it isn't sustainable... most schools are still way behind the times in IT departments and procurement of devices that last 5 minutes before the kids rip them to pieces.

Also, IT is generally a core part of many other subjects, now more than ever.

 

[Liquid_Entity]

I remember doing my HND in computing at poor college and hating it, it wasn't what I was looking for. This was way back in 1999

Yes I did similar in 1995 and it was pure maths and some science and not hardware/computing at all. Also they split the lessons so badly that we had 2 fairly ok lessons in the morning but then had a 3.5hr gap before pure maths in the afternoon. Nobody attended that and so most of us got dropped out because of lack of attendance. I would hope it's improved since then.

 

[silvagti]

They don’t teach you anything extensive outside of how to use a computer and most IT professionals go to work in industry rather than teach. That and from the service side of things it’s a race to the bottom. You can earn more working at McDonalds than working for a MSP.

People are interested in using technology like computers/tablets/phones but few are actually interested in learning how they work.

Combine that with the fact that, as commented, many entry level IT positions pay barely any more than minumim wage. If you're going to uni/college and getting into tens of thousands of debt you want to know there's a job that will pay enough to compensate you for that. IT is very far from the safe bet it was back in the early 90s. If you're clever enough to go to uni and study IT there are far better fiancially compensated disciplines out there.

I know many people who've done IT degrees and struggled to find work. Even those that have aren't earning what those who studied other sciences can. I'll wager most tradesman earn more than IT graduates. Likewise it's a very difficult job to progress up a career ladder in and even several years experience often doesn't guarentuee the pay will improve.

The above is why nobody is interested in studying IT/Computing anymore. If you really want a job in IT self study and experience is the way forward. Waste of time paying someone to teach you as you'll quickly realise that IT is all about being willing and able to teach yourself when new technologies emerge. What you've been tought at university will likely be out of date by the time you come to acutally look for a job.

Probably part of a wider debate about how tertiary education isn't really fit for purpose in 2021 IMO. I think as a society we need to consider how we link university/college education into the job market.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

Yes I did similar in 1995 and it was pure maths and some science and not hardware/computing at all. Also they split the lessons so badly that we had 2 fairly ok lessons in the morning but then had a 3.5hr gap before pure maths in the afternoon. Nobody attended that and so most of us got dropped out because of lack of attendance. I would hope it's improved since then.

lol, did you read the syllabus? Computing is not about browsing the OCUK catalogue. It is and always will be heavily maths based, because, ya know, that's how computers work

 

[The_Arbiter]

When we're you at school though? No such thing as other religions in school 20+ years ago

When i had RE classes they taught about multiple religions through the few years i was doing it, that was 22+ years ago. It was a waste of my time frankly. Some of the teachers appeared very passionate about it which was annoying as the subjects i was interested in had teachers with little enthusiasm.

I remember a kid down the road got an after school detention as his homework set was write about what they thought of god, he wrote he didn't believe in god. I only knew about this as his mum was friends with mine and she showed it to me. He was about 13/14 and i was 17/18. His mum wasn't angry, moreso speechless as the boy was confused and upset as he genuinely thought he did as he was asked.


Re, IT. Hard for me to guess, but perhaps the options of what IT is in the real world isn't taught. My IT classes were mostly forgettable. One year our IT classes was Friday afternoons, the teacher every lesson just told us to search the internet. Entire lessons all year just putting stuff into Yahoo and Ask Jeeves. It was 2 kids per computer, so being unproductive was a given.
We had one teacher, mr shouty. While he had some interesting talks about the future of technology, the curriculum was forgettable. His shoutyness led to me not really caring for what he had to say half the time also.

 

[Resident]

When I was in school in the early 90s IT lessons were just about using Lotus Suite (123, Word Pro & Approach).

I was actually told off in my first lesson as I'd had a PC for about 2-3 years already & we were supposed to be doing a class task of following a set of instructions, a 2 minute list of task spread out over a 50min lesson. I completed the list in 2 mins.

A few lessons in the teacher apologised for telling me off as he spotted I was already proficient in what he was supposed to be teaching. In the 2nd year I was introduced to the sys-admin guy and I was allowed to 'assist' him if the lesson was something I already knew.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

People are interested in using technology like computers/tablets/phones but few are actually interested in learning how they work.

Combine that with the fact that, as commented, many entry level IT positions pay barely any more than minumim wage. If you're going to uni/college and getting into tens of thousands of debt you want to know there's a job that will pay enough to compensate you for that. IT is very far from the safe bet it was back in the early 90s. If you're clever enough to go to uni and study IT there are far better fiancially compensated disciplines out there.

I know many people who've done IT degrees and struggled to find work. Even those that have aren't earning what those who studied other sciences can. I'll wager most tradesman earn more than IT graduates. Likewise it's a very difficult job to progress up a career ladder in and even several years experience often doesn't guarentuee the pay will improve.

There needs to be a much better definition between IT and 'being an IT helpdesk operator'. Every company is fundamentally a technology company. Having a good foundational knowledge of IT is imperative to any organisation that is looking to technology to fuel the next wave of growth - AI, ML, tech platforms, cloud etc.

Getting a degree in computing/ IT isn't just a gateway to running a helpdesk and configuring servers. Someone had to tell IT what they wanted and articulate how it would solve the business problem. That is the sweet spot worth millions.

 

[Deleted User 298457]

When I was in school in the early 90s IT lessons were just about using Lotus Suite (123, Word Pro & Approach).

I was actually told off in my first lesson as I'd had a PC for about 2-3 years already & we were supposed to be doing a class task of following a set of instructions, a 2 minute list of task spread out over a 50min lesson. I completed the list in 2 mins.

A few lessons in the teacher apologised for telling me off as he spotted I was already proficient in what he was supposed to be teaching. In the 2nd year I was introduced to the sys-admin guy and I was allowed to 'assist' him if the lesson was something I already knew.

Dumb down the lessons by a thousand and put pretty much every kid in the class on that initial knowledge plateau and that is a summary of the current situation and why young kids are not interested in doing IT at school.

 

[413x]

Does baffle me, yet, not at the same time (I know how slow education moves, it's still sad) that things have seemingly gone backwards. The issue is that this generation is classed as digital natives, but as a dad of kids from 16 - 6, I can tell you that it's not an advantage at all. Because they've just "had" technology/apps/ devices, they've never had to find a solution to the problem, something is just there. It doesn't lead to a search for a solution, they just use what is there and it drives me crazy their lack of skills taught around this sort of stuff at school. Obviously we try at home and get the basic skills down and more importantly that mindset, but education is so behind there is nothing in formal education that supports the real world outside, and it's ever changing landscape of technology and work. The disconnect between education and the real world is just increasing year on year!

This may well have merit.
I was always tinkering with stuff as it wouldn't work.
That doesn't really happen with phones, and phones are replacing PCs

Also, I guess people are into 'gaming' on consoles and everything is kind of locked away.

Also feels like (even for me) that that instant gratification fix and wanting X now is stifling learning. Also, almost every problem is solved by a Google. Because its all happened before.

Really, I think I'm glad I'm not a kid now.

 

[Liquid_Entity]

lol, did you read the syllabus? Computing is not about browsing the OCUK catalogue. It is and always will be heavily maths based, because, ya know, that's how computers work

haha nope, I am sure if those gaps in the schedule weren't so massive I'd have stuck around a bit longer.

 

[Haggisman]

I remember doing my HND in computing at poor college and hating it, it wasn't what I was looking for. This was way back in 1999

I think the "poor college" part is more to blame for that to be honest. I also did a HNC/HND (albeit more focused towards software engineering) around that time, and it was great - very hands on, lots of coding etc. along with some practical stuff like PC building and a couple of hours/week working on the college IT helpdesk.

Thread title seems to blame the young people. The problem is that the syllabus is terrible and not at all attractive or aligned to the job market.
[...]
We need a massive uplift in syllabus and a massive retraining of the staff that teach IT. Unfortunately the saying "those who can, do; those who can't, teach" is probably more true than not for IT courses. In my college career I only had two teachers of a batch of 10 or so who were true advocates and genuinely interested in IT as a hobby.

Absolutely. I did some part time teaching (BTEC IT at the same college) whilst doing a top-up year (the above mentioned HND -> full degree), and the course was dire.

90% of the kids didn't want to be there and were only doing it for their EMA, and saw IT/computing as an easy ride - basically an excuse to sit on youtube/myspace all day, and the college wasn't interested in getting rid of the disruptive ones because of funding (bums on seats = £).

The most frustrating part of all though - my hands were tied in terms of assessment/grading.

BTEC grading is Pass/Merit/Distinction, and it's basically a box-ticking exercise. As an example, one of the assignments was to design a magazine cover in Adobe Illustrator. Complete criteria A, B & C (e.g. add a title, image and background colour) for a Pass, also include D, E, F (e.g. 3 additional images and pieces of text in different fonts) for a Merit, also include G & H (e.g. use a special pantone colour (metallic/flourescent)) for Distinction; literally tick the boxes, get the grade.

Problem is, there's no distinction (pun intended) between the student who spends 3 hours designing a great magazine cover which incorporates all of the required elements, and the one who spends 10 minutes putting in the bare minimum to meet the criteria and the remaining 2:50 hours watching youtube and chatting loudly to his mates.

Needless to say, I got out as soon as I finished my course!