Why aren't young people taking computer courses at school?

Its boring. I did computing at uni and found it all rather dull, don’t know why i expected different though. Playing games and consuming content id far more enjoyable than a maths heavy academic course.
 
Terminal_Boy said:
To be fair, £30 p/w in 2005 was taking the ****. I was taking that home every week after tax as an apprentice in 1982.
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It was an unpaid internship, not an official apprenticeship. I should clarify, I was also technically in education at the time(although I didn't attend much, more interested in working)

So I agree with you but my point is, I went out there, found opportunities and worked for my place on the ladder.
 
Mind you if you go back 25 or so years ago I was working on a very busy factory and we used to employ lots of students over the summer.
99% of them would be doing IT or programming when they went back after the holidays and we serfs were always amazed that students wouldn't be doing anything else but computers.
Obviously things change.
 
The question came up in a book I just read, Electronic Dreams: How 1980s Britain Learned to Love the Computer Tom Lean. During the 1980s there was a MAJOR drive, supported at the highest levels of (Thatcher's) government, own minister, to introduce children to computers, not using them, but understanding them, programming them. Government paid half the cost of all those BBC computers in schools and lots of BBC TV programmes.

Then support collapsed, with it the UK computer manufacturing industry (in 1983 the UK had the highest per capita computer ownership, mostly manufactured here). In the nineties, computing education moved to Information Technology - touch typing and spreadsheets ! The universities also suffered in a collapse in interest in computer science courses in the nineties.

I benefited from computing in schools, had the BBC, actually took Computer Science A-Level, one of the last years before my school dropped it. This led to Computational Physics Degree and a career involving a lot of software development and physical layer network design.

But what's happening today? The book bigs up the Raspberry Pi filling the same role the home micros did in the eighties? Is it? Are kids programming the Pi? I have one, running my weather station, it's a remarkable gadget.

How best to interest my 5 and 2 year olds in computers? NOT gaming/content consumption, but actually developing a low level interest in the technology?
 
clv101 said:
The question came up in a book I just read, Electronic Dreams: How 1980s Britain Learned to Love the Computer Tom Lean. During the 1980s there was a MAJOR drive, supported at the highest levels of (Thatcher's) government, own minister, to introduce children to computers, not using them, but understanding them, programming them. Government paid half the cost of all those BBC computers in schools and lots of BBC TV programmes.

Then support collapsed, with it the UK computer manufacturing industry (in 1983 the UK had the highest per capita computer ownership, mostly manufactured here). In the nineties, computing education moved to Information Technology - touch typing and spreadsheets ! The universities also suffered in a collapse in interest in computer science courses in the nineties.

I benefited from computing in schools, had the BBC, actually took Computer Science A-Level, one of the last years before my school dropped it. This led to Computational Physics Degree and a career involving a lot of software development and physical layer network design.

But what's happening today? The book bigs up the Raspberry Pi filling the same role the home micros did in the eighties? Is it? Are kids programming the Pi? I have one, running my weather station, it's a remarkable gadget.

How best to interest my 5 and 2 year olds in computers? NOT gaming/content consumption, but actually developing a low level interest in the technology?
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In a word, Minecraft.

But also, recognise that learning what others have done before you is not everyone's cup of tea. Constructing on top of what came before allows much more rapid innovation. If you're a networks guys, it's like dwelling about Layer 3 instead of Layer 7 (or the mythical layer 8). You can never be a specialist at all layers because it doesn't make sense to. Getting kids an understanding of layer 1 to 6 is useful, but layer 7 is where the big bucks, mind boggling innovations are happening.
 
clv101 said:
How best to interest my 5 and 2 year olds in computers? NOT gaming/content consumption, but actually developing a low level interest in the technology?
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Nothing wrong with consuming content or gaming, you just gotta incorporate the tech aspect too. Gamer = building your own computer, keeping up with the latest trends to squeeze as much performance as possible out of your machine, that's how I got into PC building and eventually IT. Plenty of kids consume content and then go on to make their own, if they're interested in creating content then there's tonnes of tech opportunities.
 
explicit4u said:
Nothing wrong with consuming content or gaming, you just gotta incorporate the tech aspect too. Gamer = building your own computer, keeping up with the latest trends to squeeze as much performance as possible out of your machine, that's how I got into PC building and eventually IT. Plenty of kids consume content and then go on to make their own, if they're interested in creating content then there's tonnes of tech opportunities.
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I've had my boy helping me do my computer hardware updates since he was about 6. If they can do lego, they can slot in some memory.

He did computer science Gcse and is now doing computer science A level.
 
I can see why young people have stopped doing it at a GCSE level as not only is it easy and its kinda boring.

Edit: removed rant, people expressed my view a lot better.
 
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shifty_uk said:
It was an unpaid internship, not an official apprenticeship. I should clarify, I was also technically in education at the time(although I didn't attend much, more interested in working)

So I agree with you but my point is, I went out there, found opportunities and worked for my place on the ladder.
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Fair play to you for having the gumption to get off your bum and better yourself.
 
BowdonUK said:
I was browsing around the BBC site earlier today and noticed this story;

UK 'heading towards digital skills shortage disaster'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56479304



I'm in my 40s these days and when I was at school we didn't have the opportunity to take IT subjects at GCSE level. We had computer classes. But never a recognised course. If there had been a course at GCSE level open to me I'd have done it.

So can the younger folks explain why students aren't taking these IT based GCSE subjects these days? How come the take up rate is low?
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I'm 44 and remember in primary school that one year each classroom was given a Nimbus computer, which we all stared at in awe as the teacher told us how amazing it was, then it sat there for the rest of term without being used. We were forbidden to touch it. Once I moved the ball set into the desk (an early mouse I guess) and the teacher went ballistic.

Thinking back now, barely any of the staff had a clue about computers and were petrified of the things!
 
I am 22. My school experience of IT was literally powerpoint/word/publisher to make presentations and posters

I did take computing GCSE which taught me some visual basic but that's about it. Was sort of laughed at for taking it rather than doing RAF or CCF cadets (it was an option on a weekday afternoon)
 
200sols said:
Cooking or 'food technology' was an option at school. It was one of my chosen subjects, I like cooking and 90% of the class were girls. Win win.
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Malevolence said:
It was Home Economics when I was at school, and the worse thing was carrying whatever it was you'd made back home in your school bag, on a bike.
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I can't remember which of the 2 it was called for me, but I do remember "food technology" and "home economics" (we just called it home-ec). This was back in the 90s with 1995 being my GCSE year. The wider GCSE subject was called Technology. Half of the GCSE was called CDT (craft, design and technology) which was mandatory. This included metal work and woodwork. The other half of the GCSE was chosen between either home-ec, textiles or graphics. Graphics btw was technical drawing as opposed to CAD as computers weren't used.

Back on the topic of computers, my year was the very last year in school where computing wasn't offered as a GCSE subject. I did take it later on though as an AS level in 1997/8. There were bits of the course that I didn't like because it involved written work (like in English) and I wasn't very good at that. Like lengthy case studies on how computers impact the modern age (90s). Then there was the QBASIC database writing project which I did find interesting. Most students revolved their database around stock levels, patient records, library books etc. The database I wrote was for a prison and the teacher said that I was the only student that did that :D
 
The millennial interview video posted made me laugh, but there is some truth to that to an extent. I feel that the old practices of working and in fact views on careers in general is changing for my generation, rapidly. At least in my industry where people were previously expected to hold the same role for decades is no longer seen. In fact many people change jobs and indeed across industry with a view to progressing their work experiences and broadening their professional and personal outlook; and I don't think that is a bad thing either.

That video also makes fun of the millennials lack of ability to accept an 8am start? I think this is also a good thing! The work to home life dynamic is changing and for many companies it may be a shock but it has changed (not completely without thanks to COVID) and people now expect more of a balance in the favour of their private lives. This is no longer a silicon start up fantasy; it's happening with international companies and well known brand names. I'm fortunate I have a very supportive employer and only have to work a 4 day week with flexi time, it has made a huge impact to my quality of life and our productivity as a team I believe is completely unaffected if not improved as a result. In fact I'd say part the reason why our employee happiness scores and retention are so high is because this balance is so well done. So perhaps instead of bashing millennials, start to look inwards, notice added value and adopt changes that improve business and employee success.
 
IT is misunderstood. When someone asks me what I do - I mean for a living - I tend to reply with just "I'm in IT". That's because my actual job title is meaningless to anyone that is not in IT themselves to understand what it entails. Therefore I just "work in IT". That response satisfies 99% of people that ask because they have no interest in knowing any more. The only people that would tend to ask for more info, are those that have experience in IT roles themselves.
People tend to still see IT as fixing computers. Oh you know about computers...can you fix my laptop? Can you tell me a good laptop or tablet to buy? Little do they know what you actually do on a day to day basis and that actually, no, you don't know what a good laptop to buy is without researching the latest ones yourself either, despite that you might work daily on highly technical things.

When my kids ask me what I actually do all day at work...I mean it is genuinely hard to explain without them getting bored within 10 seconds. I think it is this unwillingness to learn...this lack of interest or desire that really has been the death blow to IT. It's because it's all around us by now. 5 year olds using phones/tablets daily...tech is all around us and is taken for granted. As has already been said, IT is not a mystery worth learning anymore because the focus is not what these machines and technology can do, it's more about what can I consume right now and how does it give me an instant fix in delivering content. People can't really see past that. "If you've been working with computers for so many years, aren't they all fixed yet?". Genuine question raised to me. It's because IT again is seen as devices which are made to do stuff, and if they don't, they get fixed. IT is so much more obviously.

The courses at GCSE level from what I have heard of my local schools teaching my kid, are terrible. Literally how to use office apps and not a lot else. It's no wonder they don't take them. They have a very bad rep. Same as when I was at school. I think it varies a lot. The better ones are where you learn actual programming.
 
BowdonUK said:
I've never understood why there isn't more computer porgrammes on television. We had loads back in the day. Mostly based around gaming and pc/consoles. But some programmes were about solving computer problems. Yet apart from BBC Click there is nothing on tv these days like that.
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Because of streaming services such as Youtube. Come on! Keep up! :D:p

The IT market has been saturated and its no longer seen as an highly paid job.

Looking at the IT job market right now, some companies ridiculous requirements asking for a single role.

Must have an IT related degree
X years experience working with Networks
X years experience working with X operating system
The ability to code/script in X languages
X certifications

Then you look at the pay and its a joke. Compared to years ago, those would have been separate jobs with decent pay. So young people are no longer interested as its not worth it. To be honest, I don't blame them.

Trying to repair many laptops, computers, mobile devices is becoming more difficult now. Not only because these are more compact and complex but many companies such as Apple and Lenovo are making their products more difficult to repair or even carry out an simple upgrade. How are people meant to learn new skills if hardware is intentionally being locked away??? Look at the Right To Repair movement....tech companies are not helping the situation either.

Becoming an Youtuber or Influencer is more appealing as the barrier for entry is so low.
 
If the millennial in the video had said she would use Google to research and get the answers would that have been stupid? The resume was good so the millennial knew how to present something. An 8am start is a little early unless there is also an early finish.

Schools, based on the experiences of my kids, don't teach "IT" well. They teach the use of it but not the value of it. They don't teach why it's used. They don't teach about how IT controls the world. They don't teach career paths like business analysis, devops, architecture, scrummaster. They don't show how modern IT is a bunch of kids in jeans in an office that looks more like a kindergarten, lounging on bean bags and scribbling on white boards, getting coffees from a top-notch espresso machine. I used to work for Deloitte Digital and clients would knock on the door and say "is this ... Deloitte?" in complete amazement.
 
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