Why doesn't Unlimited mean Unlimited anymore? :/

HangTime · 27 Oct 2008 at 19:59

DampCat said:
Do you run an ISP? Because it seems that the ISP's also believe that only people breaking the law have large data transfers. Which, as we know, is an idiotic belief.

By and large ISPs really aren't going to actually care what you are downloading. Whether you are breaking the law is irrelevant (unless they get pressure applied to them), all that matters to them is how much data you transfer from external networks - and consequently, how much you cost them.

The fact is, getting sued aside, someone downloading 100gig of Linux isos is just as damaging (costly) to them as someone downloading 100gig of copyrighted movies and games.

It's actually one reason why quite a few ISPs host their own binary news servers, as it will cost them less for people to be downloading from there.

milkinc13 · 27 Oct 2008 at 20:24

glad with Sky as unlimited really does mean unlimited

Amnesia · 27 Oct 2008 at 20:51

neo202020 said:
Not true btw. They have a FUP, which is unspecific.

https://www.bethere.co.uk/fairusage.do

I am with Be and think they offer a good service at a very good price, and certainly their limits don't affect me but it still irks me that they don't specify the limit.

they have a fup which how many ppl have hit ?
as far as im concerned this is unlimited until ppl start hitting the unstated limit.

Amnesia · 27 Oct 2008 at 20:55

peetee said:
No its not, its only up to the user aslong as its within the terms and conditions of the contract, and within the means of the law.
Internet is not a right.

i see what you're saying but hmmmmmm.

lets see

driving over 70mph in a sports car on a clear part of a motorway is legally wrong but .........

manjuice · 27 Oct 2008 at 21:08

<3 O2.

Downloaded over 250GB so far this month.

I download all large files between 1am-6am so hopefully they won't mind.

PoleY_15 · 27 Oct 2008 at 21:11

down with the internet!

Andrew1978 · 27 Oct 2008 at 21:19

Dolph said:
That's the real issue here, it's a contended service, so the actions of one can have a direct impact on the actions of others.

why should the customer be concerned if you can supply it or not? The companies are relying on the majority of customers to use less than what they're being sold.

bigredshark · 27 Oct 2008 at 21:23

Andrew1978 said:
why should the customer be concerned if you can supply it or not? The companies are relying on the majority of customers to use less than what they're being sold.

Yes, yes they are, it's a contended service, if it wasn't it would cost ridiculous money. What is so hard to understand about that?

Andrew1978 · 27 Oct 2008 at 21:26

The fact they dont sell it to you as a contended service and advertise it with phrases like "unlimited" or "all you can eat" maybe.

bigredshark · 27 Oct 2008 at 21:28

Andrew1978 said:
The fact they dont sell it to you as a contended service and advertise it with phrases like "unlimited" or "all you can eat" maybe.

Rubbish, ISPs have being quoting the contention ratio since the beginning, it's the main differentiator between consumer and business products as well. That people aren't smart enough to read the details is a different matter...

Dolph · 27 Oct 2008 at 21:29

Andrew1978 said:
why should the customer be concerned if you can supply it or not? The companies are relying on the majority of customers to use less than what they're being sold.

No, they are relying on people to be within a certain point on the daily/monthly usage curve that contains the vast, vast majority of all customers needs.

The costs for providing uncontended bandwidth is prohibitively expensive for consumer use, not to mention horrifically inefficent. It would be like creating a road network designed to allow all the cars in the country to travel to the same destination simultanously without congestion, a nice idea, but fundamentally flawed.

Amp34 · 27 Oct 2008 at 21:34

On a similar note to this thread I am very happy with my Virgin media 20MB unlimited service, at the moment I don't seem to be able to stream any media without loading every 5 seconds (including iPlayer)...

Viva la future.... :rolleyes:

Andrew1978 · 27 Oct 2008 at 21:36

bigredshark said:
Rubbish, ISPs have being quoting the contention ratio since the beginning, it's the main differentiator between consumer and business products as well. That people aren't smart enough to read the details is a different matter...

Ntl/Telewest/Virgin never used to have a fair use policy and was originally marketed as a truely unlimited service, which is why a lot of people complain now that they have started to offer faster and faster speeds while bringing in a fair use policy/traffic shaping and still advertising it as unlimited.

peetee · 27 Oct 2008 at 21:37

Amp34 said:
On a similar note to this thread I am very happy with my Virgin media 20MB unlimited service, at the moment I don't seem to be able to stream any media without loading every 5 seconds (including iPlayer)...

Viva la future....

that sounds wrong tbh, you should give them a ring.
A 20mb gets capped down to what? iPlayer videos are low quality, they could stream on a 1mb without a hickup tbh.

Amp34 · 27 Oct 2008 at 21:41

peetee said:
that sounds wrong tbh, you should give them a ring.
A 20mb gets capped down to what? iPlayer videos are low quality, they could stream on a 1mb without a hickup tbh.

It only seems to be at peak time, so I guess the contention ration is so high where I am that I can't get it. I assume it isn't a problem at the BBC end as I have tried a couple of other streaming sites and they do the same.

At night it's super fast, I have been able to download stuff at about 2mb/s, just when everyone else is up the speed is killed.

EDIT: I just did a speed test and it came up as downloading at 515kbps, doesn't explain why I can't stream video, or why downloads can be as low as about 30kbps around this time. And no as far as I am aware we don't get anywhere near 2GB's per day so no reason for a cap.

unwashed potato! · 27 Oct 2008 at 21:51

Amp34 said:
On a similar note to this thread I am very happy with my Virgin media 20MB unlimited service, at the moment I don't seem to be able to stream any media without loading every 5 seconds (including iPlayer)...

Viva la future....

i know you send any media, but i always have this problem with iplayer at this time which i put down to the amount of people using the service slowing it down and not the isps fault.

Andrew1978 · 27 Oct 2008 at 21:52

Dolph said:
It would be like creating a road network designed to allow all the cars in the country to travel to the same destination simultanously without congestion, a nice idea, but fundamentally flawed.

Isn't that exactly what they advertise though? except they mention the congestion in the fair use policy, which is hidden away and its upto you to find it.

I know its unrealistic to expect 20mb (soon to be 50mb) speed non stop all day, i was happy with unlimited 750k which cost the same as my 20mb service but they introduced the fair use policy at the same time giving free upgrades to either 1mb or 2mb (cant remember) requiring you to sign a new contract opting you in to the fair use policy and at the same time they announced the 5mb rollout, then they introduce traffic shaping and roll out the 10mb service, then offer free upgrades to 20mb and now 50mb.

bigredshark · 27 Oct 2008 at 21:58

Mammalian said:
i know you send any media, but i always have this problem with iplayer at this time which i put down to the amount of people using the service slowing it down and not the isps fault.

Absolutely fine here, to be honest iplayer has shedloads of bandwidth and certainly isn't hardware limited, I'd say it's your ISP...

peetee · 27 Oct 2008 at 22:00

Amp34 said:
EDIT: I just did a speed test and it came up as downloading at 515kbps, doesn't explain why I can't stream video, or why downloads can be as low as about 30kbps around this time. And no as far as I am aware we don't get anywhere near 2GB's per day so no reason for a cap.

I imagine this is down to all of the content providers getting pummeled to be honest..
Sometimes even youtube suffers for me.
But then I can go and download something from a decent server somewhere at much higher speed than the stream would be demanding.
Its a shame really, I remember when the internet used to be so much better, when joe public had 56k

I imagine if I still played games much, especially FPS that id be pretty peeved at lag/reg etc at peak times

I find it acceptable now on virgin mind, though im not anal like i used to be.

Dolph · 27 Oct 2008 at 22:01

Andrew1978 said:
Isn't that exactly what they advertise though? except they mention the congestion in the fair use policy, which is hidden away and its upto you to find it.

No, They advertise ADSL (well, unless they are virgin), which is always a contended service in the UK. Again, lack of consumer understanding of this is not the fault of the ISP's.