Man of Honour
Maybe you should ask those questions of the people using it as a quantifier of success, i.e. a score.
Why is the government entitled to a slice of our wages?
- Thread starter antijoke
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Maybe you should ask those questions of the people using it as a quantifier of success, i.e. a score.
Soldato
I'm asking you as you're the only one using the phrase in this thread.
Man of Honour
There are plenty of people using gross income as a quantifiable measurement of success...and I'm not one of them.
Caporegime
If higher taxes are "punishing the successful" then people are equating being paid more with being more successful.
well they should perhaps use the qualifier 'financially' successful - I'd assume that is what they mean in the context used
Caporegime
Yes, and to be fair I don't think it's all that unreasonable to say that earning more money means you are more successful... it's pretty clear what people mean when they say that in a discussion about tax.
Soldato
Ah, now I understand. You were just using the term 'score' when you were referring to gross income, presumably as a means of getting your point across that you didn't believe that gross income was a quantifiable measurement of success. Clever.
That is because the UK is antiquated and has very inefficient system of child tax credits. Other countries tend to increase tax free allowance, and although may have additional credits on top, you at least pay less tax up front.
Anyway, the point is changes to personal allowance doesn't change the marginal tax rate, even if the effective tax rate changes.
There is a very simple solution if someone feels they are discriminated against by earning more money. They can donate enough of their income to charity so that their marginal tax rate is the same as msot of the rest of the population. problem solved in 1 quick and easy step.
Caporegime
Well, that's a semantic issue really, as it depends on how you interpret the term "marginal tax rate" and whether that implies an "effective" rate.
Marginal and effective tax rate are not the same thing, so is has nothing to do with semantics
https://www.kitces.com/blog/underst...e-vs-effective-tax-rate-and-when-to-use-each/
Marginal tax rate is basically the tax bracket of the income. Effective tax rate is how much tax you pay. You might earn sufficient money to have a 40% marginal tax rate but your effective tax rate might be 20% once you take in to personal allowance, deduction and marginal rates in lower tax brackets. Apples and oranges really
So presumably if you now recognise that you'll be prepared to accept that the UK doesn't have a flat tax (or rather a form of flat tax) as you linked to earlier... given that we don't have a single marginal rate but rather several?
Soldato
The government is entitled to our wages because they make the law and can enforce it.
Associate
i think this thread should be about overpayment and why they don’t give it you back until you ask for it.
Associate
That’s nothing I get taxed just to get taxed again. I pay tax for my tools so I can get paid just to pay tax.
That reminds me I need to find out what form I need to fill to clame some of it back. Any one know what form I need?
That's interesting.
Relative of mine went to the bank to get a proof required for a new job and found that HMRC had been trying to contact her about a refund of 1k.
I guess she did have to then contact them and ask for it but they also made an effort to start the communication.
Nope, because we have a 45% top marginal rate that remains flat regardless of income, with deductions below.
so you're back to ignoring that there are other rates again?
the key point with a flat tax is a single flat rate... even with variations of its implementation allowing for a personal allowance, deductions such as when you donate to charity, or indeed allowing other forms of income to go untaxed (such as capital gains, dividends etc..)
we've got multiple bands/marginal rates which apply above our allowed deduction ergo we don't have a flat tax (or a "marginal flat tax"), we don't fit in the list on the article you cited which lists countries with various implementations of what approximate to "flat taxes" and which if you scroll down you'll see doesn't have the UK listed
I'm pretty sure every income tax system currently in use has a top rate of tax, it is rather irrelevant to point out that beyond the top rate there are no further increases that is kind of an inherent property of it being the 'top' rate... it is the existence of multiple rates that make it a progressive marginal tax system rather than a flat tax system. That's the key feature - multiple rates vs a flat rate... and we don't have a flat rate
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Man of Honour
No, just shorter. When a quantifiable measure of success has no direct practical relevance, it's a score. What I think about gross income being a score is irrelevant. I was replying to people who are using it as a score.
Soldato
Except that measure does have practical relevance to many of the people in receipt of it - their gross income that is.