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Why Nvidia?

D.P. said:
17094084.png


Ergo, 480 is 43% Faster minimum frame rate.

Anyone can pull random graphs out. You need to see the performance across a rnage of settings that are representative. CPU limited cases without AA on low res show the 480 to be 3% slower is meaningless
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Don't mean to fan the flames here, but you are a bit off on the maths. I don't think it takes a genious to work out that if one card gets 7fps and the other gets 10fps, the lead of the faster card is actually 30%.

That aside - looking at percentages in that case is meaningless. 10fps is just as unplayable as 7fps.
 
PCM2 said:
Don't mean to fan the flames here, but you are a bit off on the maths. I don't think it takes a genious to work out that if one card gets 7fps and the other gets 10fps, the lead of the faster card is actually 30%.

That aside - looking at percentages in that case is meaningless. 10fps is just as unplayable as 7fps.
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+1
 
Whilst I'm not surprised the focus is on gaming around here, if you use your GPU for anything else, Nvidia tends to be the better choice. They just have a more rounded approach with better driver support in more areas.
 
You come across as one of the biggest fanboys I've seen on this very forum D.P :o

The argument is a very simple one, ATi released a DX11 series of GPUs 6 months ago. Nvidia raved on about how utterly awesome their new shiney gpu was going to be, yet they've turned up extremely late with it.. its very hot.. very noisy and insanely overpriced. Oh.. and its on par with a Radeon 5870.

What is there to not argue about? Its a failure.
 
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PCM2 said:
Don't mean to fan the flames here, but you are a bit off on the maths. I don't think it takes a genious to work out that if one card gets 7fps and the other gets 10fps, the lead of the faster card is actually 30%.

That aside - looking at percentages in that case is meaningless. 10fps is just as unplayable as 7fps.
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No, one is 30% slower than the other, but one is also 43% faster than the other... 7fps + 43% of 7 fps = about 10.

30% of 10 isn't the same as 30% of 7.

If you do any number + 30%, then drop 30% off the result, you will not get the same as before you did +30%, you will get less...

One card is 143% as fast as the other, 43 % faster, the other is 70% as fast as the faster one, so 30% slower.


Yeah, both are not really playable, but who plays crysis on that res with AA & AF & Very high Dx10 anyhow :p ?
 
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PCM2 said:
Don't mean to fan the flames here, but you are a bit off on the maths. I don't think it takes a genious to work out that if one card gets 7fps and the other gets 10fps, the lead of the faster card is actually 30%.

That aside - looking at percentages in that case is meaningless. 10fps is just as unplayable as 7fps.
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(10-7)/7 = 43% ergo 10fps is 43% higher than 7fps (where 7 is the base).

One thing I don't understand is the comment that if you are a enthusiast then you don't care about heat, noise or power usage.

I'm an enthusiast and quite frankly these three items are right at the top of my priorities list. The GTX480 may be quicker than a a HD5870 but its performance comes at a massive cost.

It does make me wonder how long the cards will last at the 96 degree load temperatures as well. I can't imagine running them in SLI as the card on top will be starved for air (quite literally).
 
PCM2 said:
Don't mean to fan the flames here, but you are a bit off on the maths. I don't think it takes a genious to work out that if one card gets 7fps and the other gets 10fps, the lead of the faster card is actually 30%.

That aside - looking at percentages in that case is meaningless. 10fps is just as unplayable as 7fps.
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No, the lead is 43%
10 / 7 = 1.429 == 43% faster.

If the lead was 30% then:
7*1.3 = 9.1 FPS.


Now, you can reverse it and say the 5870 is 30% slower :
7/10 = 70% 100-70 = 30%

You the dicussion is about how much faster the 480 is compared to the 5870, therefore the 7 FPS of the 5870 is the baseline and 10 FPS is 43% faster and requires 43% more EFFECTIVE processing power to achieve.


this is all academic. Yes, both cards don't perform well enough. But this serves as a good example of a scene which is not CPU limited (minimum frame rates are usually GPU limited).


Even although 10FPS may be unplayable, 10FPS would be noticibly better than 7 FPS.
 
Visual development such as Cad, 3D development, Video editing are often more suited to Nvidia due to the specialist cards, performance drivers, and greater stability.
 
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TaKeN said:
You come across as one of the biggest fanboys I've seen on this very forum D.P :o

The argument is a very simple one, ATi released a DX11 series of GPUs 6 months ago. Nvidia raved on about how utterly awesome their new shiney gpu was going to be, yet they've turned up extremely late with it.. its very hot.. very noisy and insanely overpriced. Oh.. and its on par with a Radeon 5870.

What is there to not argue about? Its a failure.
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Where did I say it is not a failure?

This thread was about why anyone would choose the 480 over a 5870. Not which one is better.
 
D.P. said:
Where did I say it is not a failure?

This thread was about why anyone would choose the 480 over a 5870. Not which one is better.
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surely you would choose the better card..

Unless you had a hugely specific requirement, yet your whole argument is based on generalised statements and 'generalised' benchmarks.. which surely do not represent said specific requirement?
 
oweneades said:
(10-7)/7 = 43% ergo 10fps is 43% higher than 7fps (where 7 is the base).

One thing I don't understand is the comment that if you are a enthusiast then you don't care about heat, noise or power usage.

I'm an enthusiast and quite frankly these three items are right at the top of my priorities list. The GTX480 may be quicker than a a HD5870 but its performance comes at a massive cost.

It does make me wonder how long the cards will last at the 96 degree load temperatures as well. I can't imagine running them in SLI as the card on top will be starved for air (quite literally).
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Something the nVidia boys are completely unwilling to understand as well is that there isn't a single 5870 that won't overclock to a speed necessary to beat a GTX480 consistently across the board.

Take a reference GTX480 and a reference HD 5870, and every single time, the 5870 will overclock higher and give more performance than a GTX480.

Go on about stock speeds all you want, all 5870s are capable of beating a GTX480, full stop, the reference 480s simply can't overclock high enough.

D.P. is gonna have a hissy fit about this though and go on about how the GTX480s CAN overclock really high, blah blah blah, while so conveniently forgetting just HOW CLOSE they're currently running to their throttle temperature.
 
kylew said:
Something the nVidia boys are completely unwilling to understand as well is that there isn't a single 5870 that won't overclock to a speed necessary to beat a GTX480 consistently across the board.

Take a reference GTX480 and a reference HD 5870, and every single time, the 5870 will overclock higher and give more performance than a GTX480.

Go on about stock speeds all you want, all 5870s are capable of beating a GTX480, full stop, the reference 480s simply can't overclock high enough.

D.P. is gonna have a hissy fit about this though and go on about how the GTX480s CAN overclock really high, blah blah blah, while so conveniently forgetting just HOW CLOSE they're currently running to their throttle temperature.
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Well why don't you just have a go at ATI for bothering to bring out a 5870 when a 5850 will supposedly clock to 5870 speeds and beyond and pretty much match it for performance..

Arguemnets can get very dodgy when you bring overclocking into the frame.
 
Jono8 said:
Well why don't you just have a go at ATI for bothering to bring out a 5870 when a 5850 will supposedly clock to 5870 speeds and beyond and pretty much match it for performance..

Arguemnets can get very dodgy when you bring overclocking into the frame.
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No but people did anyway, thus many will recommend getting the cheaper 5850 and clocking up rather than spending the higher premium for a 5870.
 
How can anyone trust these review sites anyway?
Even Anandtech only shows benchmarks for Call of Duty, Stalker, Dirt 2, Crysis etc. By only showing games which are all optimized due to Nvidia sponsored development I consider Anandtech extremely biased.

X3: Terran Conflict should be benchmarked instead to eliminate bias. Egosoft has nothing to do with Nvidia as far as I'm aware.
 
Jono8 said:
Well why don't you just have a go at ATI for bothering to bring out a 5870 when a 5850 will supposedly clock to 5870 speeds and beyond and pretty much match it for performance..

Arguemnets can get very dodgy when you bring overclocking into the frame.
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I generally do, I think the 5870 is currently overpriced, but there's only so much you can complain about with regards to them before it gets silly.

Personally, I wouldn't touch a 5870 at its current price, the fair difference is the 5870 has 160 more stream processes, but they have yet to show their uses.

5850 all the way for me unless ATi bring out a refresh in the next few months.

Either way though, the Cypress GPUs can overclock very well to the point where GF100s can't touch them.

That's just the way it is, only the idiots will try and distort the facts.

I Don't care who has the faster GPU, but it doesn't mean I'm not going to discuss it.
 
PanMaster said:
How can anyone trust these review sites anyway?
Even Anandtech only shows benchmarks for Call of Duty, Stalker, Dirt 2, Crysis etc. By only showing games which are all optimized due to Nvidia sponsored development I consider Anandtech extremely biased.

X3: Terran Conflict should be benchmarked instead to eliminate bias. Egosoft has nothing to do with Nvidia as far as I'm aware.
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That's another good point, nVidia basically have an authorised list of games that they try to force reviewers to use and they will "punish" those that don't do as they're told, just like HardOCP were when they said in their review of the GTS250 "It's just a rebranded 9800GTX".
 
The GTS250 is a rebranded 9800GTX+ (ok, technically a 8800gts 512 with die shrink and slightly faster memory).

the overall impression is that the 480 is better than the 5870. the 470 and 5870 trade blows. The heat and power issues are something that however ATI has done better hands down. I would actually be scared to run a 480 in my rig dur to the damage it would do the rest of my components.

Fanning the flames - NV generally sell cards with 5% performance increase for 20% more price wise and this is continuing. Their cards are better if you believe them. This time it may backfire though or literally 'catch fire'.

Waiting for the driver improvements to come out which may show a slight performance boost.
 
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