Why you SHOULD be using Firefox

opethdisciple · 23 Oct 2020 at 16:48

4K8KW10 said:
If you don't care about the performance....

Otherwise, Edge is the fastest and best browser over there:

https://microsoftedge.github.io/videotest/2017-10/BenchmarkMethodology.html

That's from 2017. Using the old Edge

opethdisciple · 23 Oct 2020 at 17:49

Trying the same site on my Ubuntu based work laptop which has a Intel 8 core laptop chip the site does seem to be fine.

So perhaps the issues I am seeing then is because my CPU isn't fast enough. (3570k)

But then I see no issues with the Chromium based browsers.

---

I'm on my 3570k machine now and just opened up 6 tabs form that site and I am not getting the "A script on this page is running slow" message.

So maybe this intermittent.

V F · 23 Oct 2020 at 18:10

opethdisciple said:
Try opening the links in the walkthrough in multiple tabs. I found that the browser was giving me this message.

Hmm, I'm seeing no issues. I have 8 tabs opened of the walkthrough. Even disabled Ublock and some of Noscript to see. No pauses, no hanging, no spinning mouse icons. 2% - 5% cpu usage on the 3770K. Nor any script messages.

turbot1984 · 23 Oct 2020 at 18:11

Whats wrong with Lycos anyway?

opethdisciple · 23 Oct 2020 at 19:16

OK so it did actually happen again on my 3570k machine.

No issues with the chromium browsers though. They feel much smoother to browse on this old PC.

V F · 23 Oct 2020 at 19:37

Tried creating a new Firefox profile?

Rainmaker · 23 Oct 2020 at 19:59

V F said:
Tried creating a new Firefox profile?

This. Also, you don't have uBlock Origin installed? Do that first. That'll cut a massive amount of bandwidth, CPU and RAM usage from every site, especially ones like IGN. If you haven't already, in about:config toggle gfx.webrender.all and see if that helps (it should).

jpaul · 23 Oct 2020 at 20:59

Walkthrough site shouldn't be eating cpu at all I had one/8=12% cpu used ,with ublocko running in chrome

faster than writing above sentence, others have reported issues .. it's doing something pernicious.
https://www.reddit.com/r/waterfox/comments/emtzeb/ign_high_cpu_usagecrashing_tab_classic/
https://www.resetera.com/threads/ign-website-wtf-just-happen-why.16929/page-5

edit: exactly my sentiment from 2nd link

I refuse to browse ***le websites that do this. If I ever have the misfortune of clicking a link to one, I will leave.

I’d rather keep my dignity that read their content. They clearly don’t want me to read it.

Too much **it running in the background. Just load the text and images in a definitive way and be done with it.

opethdisciple · 23 Oct 2020 at 21:14

V F said:
Tried creating a new Firefox profile?

I just tried the same site in Firefox on my 3700x system and opened up 7 ish tabs and got the same message about a slow script.

I don't use unlock origin no. But my point is in a chromium based browser I don't see this issue manifest.

---

I thing I will mention, is I see to be seeing this issues on my Windows PC's. On my Ubuntu systems they seem fine.

V F · 24 Oct 2020 at 14:48

jpaul said:
Walkthrough site shouldn't be eating cpu at all I had one/8=12% cpu used ,with ublocko running in chrome

faster than writing above sentence, others have reported issues .. it's doing something pernicious.
https://www.reddit.com/r/waterfox/comments/emtzeb/ign_high_cpu_usagecrashing_tab_classic/
https://www.resetera.com/threads/ign-website-wtf-just-happen-why.16929/page-5

edit: exactly my sentiment from 2nd link

NoScript is definitely a must. I started using it back in 2010 when dslzone infected my computer when they got hacked.

opethdisciple · 24 Oct 2020 at 19:21

Unrelated to Windows.... but Firefox related. I did a fresh install of the latest Ubuntu and wow. They have done some work with Firefox for sure.

It is night and day smooth. Even smoother than on my Windows 10 box!!

I'm glad I did a fresh install, because I originally did an upgrade and don't think I saw this so of performance gain in Firefox.

jpaul · 24 Oct 2020 at 20:34

V F said:
NoScript is definitely a must.

I've been using ublocko now for a year, both for ff&chrome, previously a noscript disciple -
the distributed filters with ublocko, converted me, you have to trust the people who distribute them.

I hadn't realised the firefox ublocko has a 'blue' feature the chrome version doesn't
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...cks-cloaked-first-party-scripts-firefox-only/

DNS lookups foil cloaked first-party trackers
On February 19th, 2020, uBlock Origin 1.2.5 was released and allows the ad blocker to block these cloaked tracking scripts by performing a DNS lookup before loading them.
If the subdomain is a CNAME to a third-party host, then uBlock Origin will block the script from loading.
When cloaked first-party trackers are blocked, they will appear in the log as blue entries with the uncloaked domain shown underneath in a smaller font.

walkthrough site: more of an intellectual challenge to tune up this site with ublocko, its contents not my bag.
when you trace it in ublocko it perpetually loads scripts eg
<script src="https://kraken.ignimgs.com/_next/static/chunks/main-5163d13c585414c60a98.js" defer=""></script>
but, when you block those, it blurs pixels in the media elements

opethdisciple · 25 Oct 2020 at 00:57

I've been doing a bit of reading on Encrypted SNI to night. I realised I have misinterpreted how this works in Firefox.

First of all it is not always on. The website you are connecting too has to support it.

And secondly it is still being standardised so i imagine there are that many websites out there that are using the feature.

No Chromium based browser currently supports ESNI, which I though was a plus for Firefox but now I realise although Firefox supports it it is probably hardly been used as I imagine not many websites have support for the technology.

I am currently writing this from the Brave browser. It seems to do what Firefox should do. I.e all the privacy features and Chromium based.

I don't like to install addons hence why I didn't have ublock installed. But Brave has one built in which is nice for people like me.

The other thing I like about Brave is it has a former Firefox founder leading the project.

darael · 25 Oct 2020 at 01:05

Mozilla throttles rollout of Firefox 82 update - gHacks Tech News

Mozilla launched Firefox 82 Stable this week; the new version of the web browser introduced new features and improvements such as language packs that sync with browser updates, performance improvements, or accessibility improvements.

The update has been throttled by Mozilla because of several reported bugs and issues. According to Mozilla, Firefox users may experience crashes when using the new version, may get logged out of sites, and may experience printing issues.

It is still possible to update to the new stable version of Firefox, but it is probably better to wait for the next update as it will address most or all of the reported issues.

Firefox 82 Stable may crash and it looks as if this is related to third-party software running on the system Firefox is run on. Mozilla is still investigating and trying to reproduce the issues that were reported. At least some of the reported issues related to crashes are caused by antivirus and security software such as Trend Micro Deep Security Agent, Digital Guardian or Symantec Endpoint Protect.

Some of the companies that produce these products have released updates already that fix the reported issue. Most of the time, it appears to be related to the antivirus software injecting itself into Firefox.

Mozilla is not the only browser developer that is dealing with crashes and related issues caused by security software; it is quite common that security software may interfere with browsers and cause issues such as crashes.

Firefox users who have enabled the purging of trackers or Redirect Tracking Protection enabled may notice that they get signed out of sites after a short period of time, e.g. one day. It appears to be limited to a specific user configuration and as such should not be widespread according to Mozilla.

The user who reported the issue had "Clear history when Firefox closes" enabled; this removes the browsing history from the web browser. Firefox uses the information of the history to determine interactions with sites, and that is linked to the purging feature which removes cookies if no interaction is recorded. If the history gets cleared, interaction looks as if it did not happen, and Firefox proceeds with the purging.

The main setting needs to be enabled by Firefox users under about:preferences#privacy. There they need to select "Use custom settings for history" under History, and check the "clear history when Firefox closes" option.

Affected users may set the preference privacy.purge_trackers.enabled on about:config to FALSE to mitigate the issue for the time being.

A similar issue affected Chrome users on Windows 10 version 2004 recently as they got signed out of sites as well in that configuration.

The third type of issues that has been reported to Mozilla affects printing. According to reports, it is no longer possible to print to receipt prints after the update to Firefox 82. The preview of the printout is blank, and Firefox will print a blank page instead of the actual content of the page. Mozilla created a patch for the issue already.

The second printing related issue affects printouts of PDF documents. These are misaligned and clipped. The cause for the issue has been identified and a patch is already available.

Closing Words
Most issues have been identified and fixed; the crashes caused by third-party security software may require updates from the companies that create the solutions. Some updates that address the crashes are already available.

That might explain why I am occasionally losing my YouTube viewing history. Luckily restoring cookies.sqlite from my backup quickly resolves this, albeit on a temporary basis.

Rainmaker · 25 Oct 2020 at 01:13

opethdisciple said:
I've been doing a bit of reading on Encrypted SNI to night. I realised I have misinterpreted how this works in Firefox.

First of all it is not always on. The website you are connecting too has to support it.

And secondly it is still being standardised so i imagine there are that many websites out there that are using the feature.

No Chromium based browser currently supports ESNI, which I though was a plus for Firefox but now I realise although Firefox supports it it is probably hardly been used as I imagine not many websites have support for the technology.

I am currently writing this from the Brave browser. It seems to do what Firefox should do. I.e all the privacy features and Chromium based.

I don't like to install addons hence why I didn't have ublock installed. But Brave has one built in which is nice for people like me.

The other thing I like about Brave is it has a former Firefox founder leading the project.

ESNI is very handy, and available on all Cloudflare based websites (which is a lot). For example, with encrypted SNI you bypass UK censorship of certain Linux ISO websites. The ISP has no idea who you're connecting to, as the DNS lookup, SNI header and site are all encrypted. As such you can connect as normal even without a VPN. It's a nice privacy boon, and there's a bug open on the Chromium tracker to get it included once the standard moves forward through the drafts status.

Brave has been subject to several privacy scandals, including rewriting URLs to redirect them to affiliate links to gain them money. At this stage it's basically a front end for their ad network. If you really must use a Chromium based browser I'd suggest Ungoogled Chromium. You'll lose all the extra features of Firefox like containers, tracking and fingerprinting protection, first party isolation, CNAME uncloaking and so on though.

jpaul · 25 Oct 2020 at 10:15

Rainmaker said:
ESNI is very handy, and available on all Cloudflare based websites (which is a lot).

Is there ongoing exploitation of unencrypted domain names for marketting, or criminal, gain ?
after your post, reading a paper - they came up with an obvious'ish negative, which can reduce effectiveness of 2nd level of protection beyond ublocko, namely, domestic/enterprise firewall s/w

The existing plaintext exposure of domain names on the wire, as part of DNS requests and TLS handshakes, has enabled the wide use of network traffic filtering and censorship based on domain names [2, 32, 39, 49, 82, 93]. In a future with all domain name information being encrypted, DNS and SNI traffic will no longer be an effective vector to conduct censorship. It is likely that censors will shift to use IP-based blocking, which can be very effective if hosting IP addresses of censored websites are stable and host only a handful of sites or services [33, 50]. However, if providers start adapting according to the above mentioned recommendations, the cost of conducting IP-based blocking will increase, since a censor will have to keep track of which IP address belong to which websites. More importantly, the collateral damage caused by this type of blocking will also increase dramatically if censored websites are co-hosted with multiple other innocuous websites [52]. Although some previous actions from the side of providers (e.g., hindering domain fronting [40]) have shown that privacy is often given a secondary priority [88], as the collateral damage caused to censors may also impact significantly the providers, the renewed recent focus on privacy as a potential competitive advantage by some providers may encourage the deployment of hosting schemes that will improve the privacy benefits of ESNI. On the other hand, while providing many security and privacy benefits, domain name encryption can be a “double-edged sword” for network administrators who want to have full visibility and control over domain resolutions in the networks under their responsibility. Until now, the operation of firewalls, intrusion detection systems, and anti-spam or anti-phishing filters has benefited immensely from the domain name information extracted from network traffic, as is evident by the series of works mentioned in §8 that employ DNS data to detect domain name abuses and malicious online activities.

opethdisciple · 25 Oct 2020 at 10:16

Rainmaker said:
ESNI is very handy, and available on all Cloudflare based websites (which is a lot). For example, with encrypted SNI you bypass UK censorship of certain Linux ISO websites. The ISP has no idea who you're connecting to, as the DNS lookup, SNI header and site are all encrypted. As such you can connect as normal even without a VPN. It's a nice privacy boon, and there's a bug open on the Chromium tracker to get it included once the standard moves forward through the drafts status.

Brave has been subject to several privacy scandals, including rewriting URLs to redirect them to affiliate links to gain them money. At this stage it's basically a front end for their ad network. If you really must use a Chromium based browser I'd suggest Ungoogled Chromium. You'll lose all the extra features of Firefox like containers, tracking and fingerprinting protection, first party isolation, CNAME uncloaking and so on though.

Good to know. I didn't know Brave have had some privacy scandals? I'll do some Googling.

I don't really want to abandon Firefox as it feels like home. But it's hard to ignore the fact that there may no be so many engineers working on Firefox now after they sacked a quarter plus of the the work force.

Time will tell I suppose.

And yea you're right a lot of websites are hosted on Cloudflare.

opethdisciple · 25 Oct 2020 at 10:19

jpaul said:
Is there ongoing exploitation of unencrypted domain names for marketting, or criminal, gain ?
after your post, reading a paper - they came up with an obvious'ish negative, which can reduce effectiveness of 2nd level of protection beyond ublocko, namely, domestic/enterprise firewall s/w

That's the nature of technology. It can be used for both good reasons and for twisted for nefarious ones..

opethdisciple · 25 Oct 2020 at 10:20

If anyone is on Ubuntu I urge you to upgrade to Ubuntu 20.10 and try Firefox. This is like a different browser!

I just wish I could get this on Windows 10.

The browser now scrolls like Chrome i.e smooth.

I think the technical term I am looking for is jank. The browser on Ubuntu 20.10 is jank free.

darael · 25 Oct 2020 at 12:10

opethdisciple said:
If anyone is on Ubuntu I urge you to upgrade to Ubuntu 20.10 and try Firefox. This is like a different browser!

I just wish I could get this on Windows 10.

The browser now scrolls like Chrome i.e smooth.

I think the technical term I am looking for is jank. The browser on Ubuntu 20.10 is jank free.

Smooth scrolling is wasted on me. It's one of the first things I disable on Firefox.