Will I notice the difference upgrading from Diamond 9.1s in my home theatre?

Dominic-Toretto

Dominic-Toretto

Dominic-Toretto

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Hi, hope everyone is well! I would appreciate some advice regarding audio as it is an area I am not that well versed in. I currently have the below setup:

Current Setup:
Centre: Wharfedale Diamond 9cs
Fronts: Wharfedale Diamond 9.1
Surrounds: Wharfedale Diamond 9.1
Rears: Wharfedale Diamond 9.1
Subwoofers: Wharfedale SW150 x2
AVR: Denon X2500H

Existing Room:
HT1.jpg



I only use this setup for movie watching. I appreciate the Diamond 9.1s are quite old now, they have served me well, and overall I am happy with them. My only complaint (perhaps this is a limitation of my AVR), when listening to some films with heavy use of surround, if I crank the volume loud to -10 from reference level I can hear some clipping. I was thinking of upgrading my fronts to towers, with higher sensitivity, for more volume and possibly upgraded sound?

I was thinking of swapping my fronts to a pair of Wharfedale 12.3s, but will I notice the difference or is this a pointless upgrade? It would be nice to get a sound quality upgrade rather than a increase in volume. I know some people recommend the EVO 4.2s but I prefer the look of the towers.

Thanks
 
Changing to speakers that are more efficient will help, those 9.1 are 86db so getting speakers that are 91db will half as much power for same actual dB output. But I wouldn't recommend budget towers- better to stick with standmounts for the money.

I'd save up for the Evo but they are 4ohm so you'd likely need to upgrade your AVR anyway as they're a harder load than your existing diamonds.

What happens when you use a much higher crossover say 160hz for the speakers? Maybe you need more power, but you can't add power amplifiers to that 2500

Also if you do change the L/R speakers you want to buy the matching center.

That's a fair sized room so bigger speakers thensubwoofers might be recommended
 
hornetstinger said:
Changing to speakers that are more efficient will help, those 9.1 are 86db so getting speakers that are 91db will half as much power for same actual dB output. But I wouldn't recommend budget towers- better to stick with standmounts for the money.

I'd save up for the Evo but they are 4ohm so you'd likely need to upgrade your AVR anyway as they're a harder load than your existing diamonds.

What happens when you use a much higher crossover say 160hz for the speakers? Maybe you need more power, but you can't add power amplifiers to that 2500

Also if you do change the L/R speakers you want to buy the matching center.

That's a fair sized room so bigger speakers thensubwoofers might be recommended
Click to expand...
Hi, thanks for the advice. I am open to the EVO 4.4s, with a EVO 4C in the centre eventually. Is this a better solution? The only thing I am concerned about is the AVR powering them reading your 4ohm comment. Will my 2500x be okay or do I need to upgrade that to? I thought I could run them at 8ohm and because its higher sensitivity it would be louder and need less power?
I have not tried a higher crossover, it happens very rarely, and only when all my surround speakers are engaged at loud volume, that is what led be to believe the 2500 was topping out power wise.

john_smith said:
I can't help with the questions, but the room looks beautiful. Congrats.
Click to expand...
Thanks

Chris1712 said:
You might get more impact from an AVR change with DIRAC or other fancy room correction. Also, that room is begging for a scope screen not 16:9!
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advise, I have run Audyssey and that made a huge difference. I am trying to hold off on an amp until I am ready to do atmos. I put 16:9 in as I watch a lot of 16:9 content :)

hornetstinger said:
There's some evo speakers on facebook marketplace, one near cardiff another near kidderminister, the latter has matching center
Click to expand...
Thanks, I have my eye on these! Potentially with a EVO 4C as a centre.
 
hornetstinger said:
Also consider the large center, as it's most important speaker in HT.
www.hifix.co.uk

Wharfedale Evo 4.C Centre Speaker

Experience the evolution of affordable Hi-Fi with the Wharfedale Evo 4.C Centre Speaker. Immerse yourself in stunning sound and groundbreaking design.
www.hifix.co.uk www.hifix.co.uk
Click to expand...
Yep, it looks a beast! I have my eye on this to match with the Evo 4.4. Think I will notice a difference from my Diamond 9.1s lol?
 
Yes if you get Evo's upgrade your AVR, probably 6700 or similar. The 8500 is good price, that's if you want full 13.2 system.

Don't change the impendence switch on your AVR.

also that is a large room so one or two of these could be worthwhile upgrade

tonewinner-kalibrate.co.uk

SW-D2000 12" Ported 400W Subwoofer (2,000W PEAK) - Subwoofers - ToneWinner UK | Audio Visual Product Reseller

Special introductory pricing! PLEASE NOTE THIS IS A PREORDER. CONTACT US FOR MORE INFORMATION. 5 YEAR WARRANTY AND 30 DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE SW-D2000 is a 12 inches powered subwoofer bass speaker with 400W (2,000W Peak) high power driving and ch
tonewinner-kalibrate.co.uk tonewinner-kalibrate.co.uk
 
Saw your post on avforums. FYI BK subs are good but for HT they are surpassed by other sub brands. That does look like a large room so use this to get an idea what you will need. I had a SW-150 it's ok for a bedroom system, but in a large space you'll be missing a lot of low frequencies and limited in output.

www.avforums.com

How much subwoofer output capability do you need in your system?

Dear AVF members The table below lists CEA-2010 output rated subwoofers in order of their estimated ability to support user listening levels (relative to reference) in rooms of varying sizes. For some it may be self-explanatory but if you would like to know how to use the table and how and why...
www.avforums.com www.avforums.com



I'd say amp upgrade is next thing, and if you are into 2 channel stereo, you could look at a decent stereo integrated amplifier. THis will offer superior sound quality to a AVR (for stereo mode) Diamond 9.1 will be fine for surrounds, or you could move 9.1 to atmos buying evo standmount for rears, again depends on how many channels you're going for
 
hornetstinger said:
Saw your post on avforums. FYI BK subs are good but for HT they are surpassed by other sub brands. That does look like a large room so use this to get an idea what you will need. I had a SW-150 it's ok for a bedroom system, but in a large space you'll be missing a lot of low frequencies and limited in output.

www.avforums.com

How much subwoofer output capability do you need in your system?

Dear AVF members The table below lists CEA-2010 output rated subwoofers in order of their estimated ability to support user listening levels (relative to reference) in rooms of varying sizes. For some it may be self-explanatory but if you would like to know how to use the table and how and why...
www.avforums.com www.avforums.com



I'd say amp upgrade is next thing, and if you are into 2 channel stereo, you could look at a decent stereo integrated amplifier. THis will offer superior sound quality to a AVR (for stereo mode) Diamond 9.1 will be fine for surrounds, or you could move 9.1 to atmos buying evo standmount for rears, again depends on how many channels you're going for
Click to expand...
Haha small world! Thanks for the link I will work out the measurements and see where it lands me. From glancing at the table it looks like one SVS PB1000 might not be enough lol.

Regarding the amp upgrade I know you said the speakers were 4ohm and the avr would have more load because of this. Looking at the wharfedale site it says Nominal Impedance8Ω Compatible. Will this be okay for a while with my x2500h?

I thought because of the 3db increase in sensitivity that it would use half the power of the Diamond 9.1s at the same volume?

I wasn't really planning on a avr update anytime soon and I can't use an external amp like an emotiva with this avr. Eventually I will upgrade to a 11 channel Denon but it was planned to be in a few years. Thanks for the help
 
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Yes the big Evo are more efficient so require less power to teach same spl but they're lower impedance so harder load on the amp. 4.3 ohm.

Set speakers to small 60hz

For two channel avrs can be a bit crap, which once you get decent speakers you can notice . But not so much with budgets speakers like the diamonds. If possible try and borrow a good stereo amp that way best possible sound from the speakers then go back to the avr. Your Denon lacks pre outs so can't add power amplifiers not stereo integrated so you'd need a new one.

Pb1000 is only 10" . I'd say you'd want a couple of 12" ported box subs in that room at least if that is converted attack that will have large area
 
hornetstinger said:
Yes the big Evo are more efficient so require less power to teach same spl but they're lower impedance so harder load on the amp. 4.3 ohm.

Set speakers to small 60hz

For two channel avrs can be a bit crap, which once you get decent speakers you can notice . But not so much with budgets speakers like the diamonds. If possible try and borrow a good stereo amp that way best possible sound from the speakers then go back to the avr. Your Denon lacks pre outs so can't add power amplifiers not stereo integrated so you'd need a new one.

Pb1000 is only 10" . I'd say you'd want a couple of 12" ported box subs in that room at least if that is converted attack that will have large area
Click to expand...
Thanks for all the help. I will take it on board! Will post updates tomorrow when the Evo's arrive :)
 
The EVO 4's arrived today :). Got them all setup, and calibrated with Audyssey. Very happy, the quality of the cabinets and speakers is amazing. I was not expecting much sound difference, but these are much better than my Diamond 9.1s, much fuller and more clarity and detail. I feel like I was missing sound before after listening to these lol. I have also noticed running these at -20 from reference is so loud, before I would have to run -10 for similar volume with my 9.1s. Trying to be careful with volume so they do not clip or anything like that. But yeah, super happy! Thanks everyone for the help and advice!
 
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