Will Ryzen 4000 CPUs have more PCIE lanes?

[Journey]

Thanks for providing info on this - its a board I'm considering for my new post-production rig. I will be getting an RTX 3080 when its released, and the rig will have 2 Gen4 NVME drives, maybe 3TB total. I may want to add a third Gen4 NVME at some point. In my situation does the Asus X570 WS Pro-Ace have any advantages over a standard board? I am also considering the Gigabyte X570 Auros Extreme as I really like the passively cooled chipset.

The board layout is what make it appealing, as it has the ability to use the PCI-E lanes in a much more intelligent way. No one in the public domain currently knows if Nvidia will allow the 3xxx series cards to run on PCI-E 4.0, and how it will work if they do, but I'd imagine it will still be a full 16x 3.0 card, depending on your application, the GPU can happily run at 8.0x speeds with little to no loss in performance, which means you'd have the rest of the lanes free for other devices e.g. the M.2 drives.

It's a very well made board either way, and does a great job at doing what it is designed to do - namely being stable for workstation use. I'd probably look at your overall total budget, and decide what can be moved in or swapped around if required. You should make a dedicated thread with your requirements in there, and you could gather some options and opinions, dedicated to your task/build.

 

[arconz]

The board layout is what make it appealing, as it has the ability to use the PCI-E lanes in a much more intelligent way. No one in the public domain currently knows if Nvidia will allow the 3xxx series cards to run on PCI-E 4.0, and how it will work if they do, but I'd imagine it will still be a full 16x 3.0 card, depending on your application, the GPU can happily run at 8.0x speeds with little to no loss in performance, which means you'd have the rest of the lanes free for other devices e.g. the M.2 drives.

My understanding is that only one M.2 can use the CPU lanes regardless, and other slots always go through the chipset. Is that not correct or are things different with the Asus X570 WS Pro-Ace? I guess using a Gen4 PCIe riser card would get around this limitation (if it is one lol).

I would be pretty disappointed if the nVidia 3000 series is not Gen4. I know that even Gen3 8X graphics is not saturated in almost all circumstances, but the point is a Gen4 card running at X8 still has the same bandwidth as Gen3 X16, meaning more free CPU lanes for that NVME riser card

 

[Journey]

My understanding is that only one M.2 can use the CPU lanes regardless, and other slots always go through the chipset. Is that not correct or are things different with the Asus X570 WS Pro-Ace? I guess using a Gen4 PCIe riser card would get around this limitation (if it is one lol).

There is one dedicated M.2 slot with 4x 4.0 lanes from the CPU socket, and the CPU also has an additional 16x lanes that can be split up if required, which is how it is done on the Asus X570 WS Pro-Ace, the top two slots when configured as 8x 4.0 and 8x 4.0 are running from the CPU lanes, allowing you to use one for a GPU running at 8x, and another to be used for something else at 8x, e.g 2x NVMe M.2 SSD's in a carrier board. The chipset lanes, compromise of a 4x 4.0 uplink to the CPU, which is where the 8x 3.0 slot at the bottom of the board comes from, if you are using that at 8x 3.0 speeds then you will have a bottleneck if you try and also use a device connect to the secondary M.2 slot at full speed (or the U.2 connector) at the same time. Hope that makes sense.

I would be pretty disappointed if the nVidia 3000 series is not Gen4. I know that even Gen3 8X graphics is not saturated in almost all circumstances, but the point is a Gen4 card running at X8 still has the same bandwidth as Gen3 X16, meaning more free CPU lanes for that NVME riser card

I don't think it will happen until the generation following that, once 4.0 is well established or superseded by 5.0. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, they'd need to design the card in such a way that is is both 8x wired and 16x wired, and use some hardware on the card to detect and enable the correct specification, who knows how much that would cost. Maybe they'll do it in the new Quadro cards, with a view to trickling it down at a refresh or as I said newer cards again.

 

[arconz]

There is one dedicated M.2 slot with 4x 4.0 lanes from the CPU socket, and the CPU also has an additional 16x lanes that can be split up if required, which is how it is done on the Asus X570 WS Pro-Ace, the top two slots when configured as 8x 4.0 and 8x 4.0 are running from the CPU lanes, allowing you to use one for a GPU running at 8x, and another to be used for something else at 8x, e.g 2x NVMe M.2 SSD's in a carrier board. The chipset lanes, compromise of a 4x 4.0 uplink to the CPU, which is where the 8x 3.0 slot at the bottom of the board comes from, if you are using that at 8x 3.0 speeds then you will have a bottleneck if you try and also use a device connect to the secondary M.2 slot at full speed (or the U.2 connector) at the same time. Hope that makes sense.

Thanks for the explanation I think I get it. So looking at that diagram the best mode for my rig might actually be the middle column, 1 GPU At 8X 3.0 (4.0 if it ever becomes available), an adapter card in the second 8X slot with 2 x 4.0 NVMEs, and a 3rd 4.0 NVME in the primary M.2 slot. All CPU lanes used, third PCIe slot unused.

I just checked and the Gigabyte would work for my setup as well, it can run its two full length slots in 8X 4.0 mode, but its 3rd PCIe slot is 4.0 4X. Does that mean its wired different from the Asus's bottom 3.0 8X slot... in that case I could see why the Asus would be more appealing for multi-GPU workstations.

 

[Journey]

Does that mean its wired different from the Asus's bottom 3.0 8X slot... in that case I could see why the Asus would be more appealing for multi-GPU workstations.

Correct, the Gigabtye is a full length slot with a 4x electrical connection at 4.0 speed, and the second slot in the board is again full length but wired to 8x 4.0.

The Asus board is actually much better value in terms of how expandable it is, in a custom way.

 

[jigger]

Thanks for the explanation I think I get it. So looking at that diagram the best mode for my rig might actually be the middle column, 1 GPU At 8X 3.0 (4.0 if it ever becomes available), an adapter card in the second 8X slot with 2 x 4.0 NVMEs, and a 3rd 4.0 NVME in the primary M.2 slot. All CPU lanes used, third PCIe slot unused.

I just checked and the Gigabyte would work for my setup as well, it can run its two full length slots in 8X 4.0 mode, but its 3rd PCIe slot is 4.0 4X. Does that mean its wired different from the Asus's bottom 3.0 8X slot... in that case I could see why the Asus would be more appealing for multi-GPU workstations.

It depends what you are looking to achieve, but it’s worth keeping in mind Ryzen also offers a crap load of external IO connectivity.

 

[pete910]

It depends what you are looking to achieve, but it’s worth keeping in mind Ryzen also offers a crap load of external IO connectivity.

Same as you get on Intel

 

[jigger]

Same as you get on Intel

Im not sure TBH. Everything I’ve bought over last three years has been AMD for obvious reasons.

What I meant was you have a large amount of unused bandwidth direct to the chip that opens up a lot of possibilities. 20gbe networking and USB-C for instance.

 

[pete910]

Im not sure TBH. Everything I’ve bought over last three years has been AMD for obvious reasons.

What I meant was you have a large amount of unused bandwidth direct to the chip that opens up a lot of possibilities. 20gbe networking and USB-C for instance.

But you was on about IO, You get the same on Intel too , Both are restricted on the main stream platform too. So your point is moot is it not ?

 

[jigger]

But you was on about IO, You get the same on Intel too , Both are restricted on the main stream platform too. So your point is moot is it not ?

I not talking about Intel, but you only get 16 3.0 lanes from the chip with Intel. So yes it's moot.

 

[BongoHunter]

I not talking about Intel, but you only get 16 3.0 lanes from the chip with Intel. So yes it's moot.

I thought you also got 4 extra lanes at least from the cpu to the chipset for the extras needed!?

 

[jigger]

I thought you also got 4 extra lanes at least from the cpu to the chipset for the extras needed!?

I think it’s still chipset dependant. Some drop the 16 from the CPU to 8

From Intel.

Configurations indicates the number of lanes and bifurcation capabilities for which the processor PCI express port is enabled. Note: The processor's actual PCI express configurations will be determined or limited by the value of this chipset attribute even if the processor is capable of additional configurations.

 

[BongoHunter]

I think it’s still chipset dependant. Some drop the 16 from the CPU to 8

Yeah but that would then increase the chipset lanes available right - the CPU doesn't change?

E.G Intel C232 chipset (I know its niche but its the only Intel chipset I have to reference!) that has 16 from CPU to primary PCIE Slot, then another 8 lanes are available to use how you see fit (but the total bandwidth from those 8 lanes is linked to the chipset over a x4 PCIE 3 link)

 

[jigger]

Yeah but that would then increase the chipset lanes available right - the CPU doesn't change?

E.G Intel C232 chipset (I know its niche but its the only Intel chipset I have to reference!) that has 16 from CPU to primary PCIE Slot, then another 8 lanes are available to use how you see fit (but the total bandwidth from those 8 lanes is linked to the chipset over a x4 PCIE 3 link)

Honestly not sure on the topology of any Intel boards as nothing has made any sense to buy for so long.

 

[arconz]

I found this RE upcoming Rocket Lake desktop chips from Intel. So they will finally throw in 4 more CPU lanes, but their chipset link is still going to be PCIe 3.0??? So basically a 2nd NVME can't run at 5+GBs unlike with X570, instawin for AMD. Things are just getting sad for Intel lol.

 

[Subzero85]

Anyone know when the ryzen 4000 series should be released ? im hoping to build a gaming PC around october, and im looking to pair a 4000 series CPU with nvidias new line up of graphics card

 

[Journey]

Anyone know when the ryzen 4000 series should be released ? im hoping to build a gaming PC around october, and im looking to pair a 4000 series CPU with nvidias new line up of graphics card

Check in the other Zen3 threads, but the current guess 'o' meter says that it could be Nov '20, or Q1 '21. As for Nvidia who knows they are probably just waiting for AMD to move first, so they can one up them the following day or week, either way they'll all be overpriced and offer nothing new.

 

[Subzero85]

Check in the other Zen3 threads, but the current guess 'o' meter says that it could be Nov '20, or Q1 '21. As for Nvidia who knows they are probably just waiting for AMD to move first, so they can one up them the following day or week, either way they'll all be overpriced and offer nothing new.

Well i did get a ryzen 9 3900x and a 2080 super before lockdown, a bit too early to upgrade again ?

 

[Journey]

Well i did get a ryzen 9 3900x and a 2080 super before lockdown, a bit too early to upgrade again ?

Depends if you 'need' more performance it just like spending money. Make a thread if you want specific information surrounding your system and requirements.

 

[arconz]

Check in the other Zen3 threads, but the current guess 'o' meter says that it could be Nov '20, or Q1 '21. As for Nvidia who knows they are probably just waiting for AMD to move first, so they can one up them the following day or week, either way they'll all be overpriced and offer nothing new.

Oh they will be overpriced But offering 10GB as standard on the xx80 and 12GB on the Ti is something new, depending on your definition I guess lol. Its something the RTX 2000 series didn't have over the 1000 series. As a GPU rendering professional I want a next gen card to have a decent number more CUDA cores and VRAM, and ideally be PCIe4 for ease of system building... if they have all that they can take my money