Will the Mac end up becoming un-cool?
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Soldato
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Shhhhhhhh - Mac users couldn't right-click until fairly recently
Do you mean fairly recently as in since like... day one? control-clicking has been available for as long as I've been using Macs, and that was nine years ago. It's always been there as far as I know.
Soldato
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It's nearly all smart mailboxes. Make a new smart mailbox and all the options are there, experiment and you'll see it.
It does the thing with dates and phone numbers and so on on its own, hover over them and it gives you the option.
I don't think the Apple Products will be uncool, why?
Most Cool things are normally expensive & because of this Fact Apple Products will never be uncool till they drop there prices.
Think about it
Ferrari
Aston Martin
Apple
50" Panasonic TV
All Cool & Expensive
Its not always the way but a lot of it is.
& to End the PC vs Mac Debate
My reasons
Mac OSX
Perfect for Casual Users & Medium Users
Great for productivity
Nice UI
Minimalist yet still have same functionality as Windows 7
Stable Fast
Great Programs
Windows 7
Don't like the UI to much its to BIG.. even on small icons. Office 2010 is sooo big.
Quite Stable
Good For Enthusiast
nice for most users
Linux
Superior Stability
Bit Geeky for Most Users
Free Apps
Great For Servers
All in all All OSes are good in there own way end off.
Most Cool things are normally expensive & because of this Fact Apple Products will never be uncool till they drop there prices.
Think about it
Ferrari
Aston Martin
Apple
50" Panasonic TV
All Cool & Expensive
Its not always the way but a lot of it is.
& to End the PC vs Mac Debate
My reasons
Mac OSX
Perfect for Casual Users & Medium Users
Great for productivity
Nice UI
Minimalist yet still have same functionality as Windows 7
Stable Fast
Great Programs
Windows 7
Don't like the UI to much its to BIG.. even on small icons. Office 2010 is sooo big.
Quite Stable
Good For Enthusiast
nice for most users
Linux
Superior Stability
Bit Geeky for Most Users
Free Apps
Great For Servers
All in all All OSes are good in there own way end off.
Soldato
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- 26 Aug 2003
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- 24,290
I've never understood that and never will.
Reason i say that is
1.because when you receive any error messages Apple error messages are normally very good and tell you exactly what to do great for these users
2. OSX rarely goes wrong & all maintenance is automated (Windows only done that from vista really)
3.all programs are very simple to use & don't involve learning to do the simple things, but allows you to advanced things with very little knowledge.
4. Using the OS is very simple & requires very little knowledge.
prime example of this,
My Mum Never used Mac before Only used Windows once. (not even turned a pc on!) I gave her my Macbook to use for a while as she kept saying she wanted a laptop
she instantly turned it on herself & within 20 minutes she was on the internet browsing Google, Created a To-Do List & started looking at some Animal website about how to keep Turtles.
Now if she could do this on her own, first time using a computer ever, i say that a very good feat.
Specially when i let her use Windows Machine every 2 minutes she was how do I do this?
She now loves the Mac & wont let me use it.
1.because when you receive any error messages Apple error messages are normally very good and tell you exactly what to do great for these users
2. OSX rarely goes wrong & all maintenance is automated (Windows only done that from vista really)
3.all programs are very simple to use & don't involve learning to do the simple things, but allows you to advanced things with very little knowledge.
4. Using the OS is very simple & requires very little knowledge.
prime example of this,
My Mum Never used Mac before Only used Windows once. (not even turned a pc on!) I gave her my Macbook to use for a while as she kept saying she wanted a laptop
she instantly turned it on herself & within 20 minutes she was on the internet browsing Google, Created a To-Do List & started looking at some Animal website about how to keep Turtles.
Now if she could do this on her own, first time using a computer ever, i say that a very good feat.
Specially when i let her use Windows Machine every 2 minutes she was how do I do this?
She now loves the Mac & wont let me use it.
And I also remember having to double-click the top of every open window in OS9 in order to get to the desktop. Whereas since Win95 the Show-Desktop button has always been available.
OSX's dock was also heavily influenced by the Windows taskbar, just refined. Both OSs have always borrowed from each other. It's just that Apple refuse to acknowledge the benefit of right-click as they are unable to rename it.
That entirely depends on what your definition of cool is.
Easy to use, aesthetically pretty and expensive enough to make a certain type of people believe owning such an item will make them cool? Sure.
Unfortunately Apple are far too common to be deemed cool these days, and as others have already pointed out, they're well on their way to becoming what they mocked and despised back in the late 80's early 90's.
* I should add I actually like OS10 - its a great piece of software but this thread isnt debating whether they make good things or not - just whether its cool or not
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Soldato
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Secondary click. It's WAY better.
Do you have anything else open at the time (specifically thats using Open GL)?
Had a similar problem with a similar setup and found clearing Maya's Z-buffer worked.
I don't want to sound picky, but... she pressed the on button, and launched an internet browser. Where exactly were you hiding these functions on your windows pc?
I'm glad you wrote that and not me - I was thinking the same thing but thought it best someone else had a turn. Turn PC on, pick browser of choice, surf the web. Perhaps it can only be done if you're new to computers if there is an Apple logo on the lid, otherwise it beats me.
Wow, holy ill informed twaddle batman!!
"Cool" is a completely subjective thing that I would suggest has little to do with "technical" competence.
I tend to think there are a few factors that generally are associated with any product being cool.
1/ It tends to be premium priced for it's general market.
2/ It tends to be limited in numbers compared to "mainstream" competitors.
3/ It tends to have an attention to detail in the styling
4/ On occasion it can be intentionally "over engineered" for the task it's designed for
There are a few other points but that pretty much covers the jist. People like to feel special or differentiated from everyone else and some consider a Mac as "cool" for just that reason. A £3000 Omega watch doesn't tell the time any better (generaly) than a £30 Casio, however it's seen as aspirational because not everyone has one, it's expensive, looks good, not everyone has one, it's over engineered, and, not everyone has one
.
Now sure, just like an Omega, there are people that either need a Mac for a specific reason (print publishing and media is a great example), or just sees it as a tool to do a job and happens to use an Apple PC rather than Sony, HP or anyone else. For others they may have used DOS/Windows PCs at work or for a long time and "just fancy something different for a change".
Others will buy a Mac because they see it as cool, or aspirational. The slightly more ugly side is they buy a £1200 Mac book to flout "they can" rather than a "cheap, nasty £400 laptop". The same goes for "exclusive" cars, watches etc.
Technological capabilities really don't come into it. The straw man that a decent Windows 7 PC is insecure, unstable or bloated is out of date by several years.
The two OSs are broadly comparable in terms of capability, both having strengths and weaknesses (Beach ball vs doughnut of doom anyone? )
Apple produce some cool and stylish kit, they specialise in elegant industrial design. Apple don't license the OS out to PC builders for exactly this reason. They have a niche at the premium end of the market and don't want to see the "brand" devalued by being installed on "adequate" PCs at the low end of the market.
The lack of success of Linux on the desktop, even preinstalled and configured by people like Dell, is a great example of why it has very little to do with the OS and much more to do with the desirability of the whole package.
That's why the Mac is unlikely to become "uncool" for the foreseeable future as long as Apple refuses to go mainstream.
They need to be careful though.
When the iPhone came out it was hugely desirable and "cool". Now, although commanding a premium price and still looking stylish (although I would argue the 5 x 4 home screen and UI is starting to look dated after 4 years) you'd be hard pushed to find anyone who on seeing a iPhone thought it was "cool". It's become ubiquitous and lost it's mystique.
Just my 2c...
I tend to think there are a few factors that generally are associated with any product being cool.
1/ It tends to be premium priced for it's general market.
2/ It tends to be limited in numbers compared to "mainstream" competitors.
3/ It tends to have an attention to detail in the styling
4/ On occasion it can be intentionally "over engineered" for the task it's designed for
There are a few other points but that pretty much covers the jist. People like to feel special or differentiated from everyone else and some consider a Mac as "cool" for just that reason. A £3000 Omega watch doesn't tell the time any better (generaly) than a £30 Casio, however it's seen as aspirational because not everyone has one, it's expensive, looks good, not everyone has one, it's over engineered, and, not everyone has one
.Now sure, just like an Omega, there are people that either need a Mac for a specific reason (print publishing and media is a great example), or just sees it as a tool to do a job and happens to use an Apple PC rather than Sony, HP or anyone else. For others they may have used DOS/Windows PCs at work or for a long time and "just fancy something different for a change".
Others will buy a Mac because they see it as cool, or aspirational. The slightly more ugly side is they buy a £1200 Mac book to flout "they can" rather than a "cheap, nasty £400 laptop". The same goes for "exclusive" cars, watches etc.
Technological capabilities really don't come into it. The straw man that a decent Windows 7 PC is insecure, unstable or bloated is out of date by several years.
The two OSs are broadly comparable in terms of capability, both having strengths and weaknesses (Beach ball vs doughnut of doom anyone?
)Apple produce some cool and stylish kit, they specialise in elegant industrial design. Apple don't license the OS out to PC builders for exactly this reason. They have a niche at the premium end of the market and don't want to see the "brand" devalued by being installed on "adequate" PCs at the low end of the market.
The lack of success of Linux on the desktop, even preinstalled and configured by people like Dell, is a great example of why it has very little to do with the OS and much more to do with the desirability of the whole package.
That's why the Mac is unlikely to become "uncool" for the foreseeable future as long as Apple refuses to go mainstream.
They need to be careful though.
When the iPhone came out it was hugely desirable and "cool". Now, although commanding a premium price and still looking stylish (although I would argue the 5 x 4 home screen and UI is starting to look dated after 4 years) you'd be hard pushed to find anyone who on seeing a iPhone thought it was "cool". It's become ubiquitous and lost it's mystique.
Just my 2c...
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I assume you're referring to:
"Windows 7 is essentially Vista with the latest service packs and a UI change."
Because most of the rest of the post was more or less opinion or observation to the best of my knowledge. But me making such comparisons with Vista and W7 isn't technically correct, I know that, but what I look at is performance and stability and in the later days of Vista and then moving to Windows 7 - I felt very little difference.
That is what makes me say it, from a user perspective, Microsoft had already sorted quite a bit of the performance and stability problems in service packs for Vista and that brought it to a level that I thought was around Windows 7.
why are we doing this again ?
When discussing is something is cool, we must bear in mind this includes the oppinions of the masses, the non technology savvy parents, sisters and uncles + aunts of your world.
They wont know what half the words in these posts mean, its turning into another OSX vs windows thread which is just pointless !
When discussing is something is cool, we must bear in mind this includes the oppinions of the masses, the non technology savvy parents, sisters and uncles + aunts of your world.
They wont know what half the words in these posts mean, its turning into another OSX vs windows thread which is just pointless !
OK, then the short version is as long as Apple keep marketing Macs as a "designer" brand, in relatively small numbers, at a premium price, capable and designed attractively with an attention to detail they will continue to been seen as cool by a significant percentage of the population in large part because they are "different".
Break one or two of those provisos and like the iPhone they will still be attractive and good at what they do but run the risk of losing their mystique, or "cool" factor.
Break one or two of those provisos and like the iPhone they will still be attractive and good at what they do but run the risk of losing their mystique, or "cool" factor.
But what makes them market/sell in relatively small numbers? Is it to keep the coolness or is it because there isn't the market there at the price point to sell them in larger numbers? Apple have apparently still only got 5% of the world market share when it comes to PCs and that's a percentage that has stayed pretty static for a good many years. Some of the pricing leaves me baffled. The Mac Mini is expensive, the difference between the base 21.5" iMac with the 1 TB drive is only about £150 cheaper than the base 27" iMac yet you get all those acres of screen with the 27"?
In terms of performance and stability, moving from 64-bit Vista to 64-bit Windows 7 was like moving from Win95 to Win98
It may looked similar, but it felt like a world of difference under the hood.
I just want to learn how to use OSX for work purposes, but in general Win7 is far easier for me to use
So just run OSX on your existing computer if that's all you want. It will cost a lot less than a new iMac/MBP/MM