Wind Turbines, hopefully on their way out

[wilber]

I'll try and Google it down for you later.




Not really, the difference is power plants create mostly local jobs, wind power creates mostly foreign jobs.

So we have foreign workers, flying in to run the maintaince on the turbines on my doorstep and not the multiple people i know in the industry?

The monitoring station in my local town is the same I guess right?

The benefits are huge especially to rural communities.

My local town which lost it's car parts manufacturing industry due to its locality, is now seeing renewable firms investing.

The money paid to local land owners, for access, rent of sites, payments for wooden pole lines crossing their land goes back into our local economy.

This is without the added benefit of community benefit schemes set up by the windfarms, paying money into a pot for local communities to do with as they see fit (hundreds of thousands a year, 10's of millions throughout wales).

Electricity Bills subsidised for residents who live near the windfarm.

I was going to mention about nuclear but striders done it below.

Really because the only serious Nuclear power plant companies are all either French or Japanese, so...regardless i think it matters little.

 

[Abraham]

Maybe the likes of boiled water could be gradually stored throughout the night instead of needing 2000W+ (usually too much water used aswell...cause idiots) via kettle.

Though that would likely require everyone having solar heaters...

solar heaters, at night?

 

[wilber]

Not really, the difference is power plants create mostly local jobs, wind power creates mostly foreign jobs.

Seeing as you are basing this on North Wales lets do a quick bit of research....

West Coast Energy based in Mold is an independant onshore wind developer.

Jones Brother's in Ruthin provide Civil engineering services for onshore wind farms.

Prysmian is a cable manufacturer in Wrexham. Supplying cables for the Pen Y Cymoedd onshore wind farm.

All foreign
It's almost like Britian First provide this propaganda.

 

[StriderX]

solar heaters, at night?

Yes, i call them Lunar heaters

 

[dowie]

Not sure how a denser field of gigantic sticks is an improvement.

^^^

this

 

[ginjaninja]

+1 we've got more and more in our area, I think they look fantastic and yes I live fairly near a couple of them.

We have 10 1KM away in our view and they are fine...If they are helping produce energy more sustainably that more than makes up for any minor eyesore they might be but they really arent an inconvenience.

My concern is weather they really are effective and not a ruse. All new technology needs to be tried and improved I guess...

also when the zombie apocalypse hits i can run a cable and keep my freezer going...

 

[MooMoo444]

Sounds like a great idea, I hope they build lots of them.

Just not in my back yard.

 

[ubersonic]

Seeing as you are basing this on North Wales lets do a quick bit of research....

I'll save you the trouble, most of the money goes to English companies who employ English workers. Yes the may be some Welsh companies involved but it's the minority, hence why so many people (including those Welsh companies) moan about it.

 

[ubersonic]

My concern is weather they really are effective and not a ruse. All new technology needs to be tried and improved I guess...

The main issue with their effectiveness is (ignoring the nonsense about annihilating birds):

 

[wilber]

The main issue with their effectiveness is (ignoring the nonsense about annihilating birds):

and every single issue that image demonstrates is as you say nonsense, and everything the NIMBY organistations want to try and blind the general public with.

 

[wilber]

I'll save you the trouble, most of the money goes to English companies who employ English workers. Yes the may be some Welsh companies involved but it's the minority, hence why so many people (including those Welsh companies) moan about it.

Again lets have some evidence to back that up rather than hearsay.

 

[ubersonic]

and every single issue that image demonstrates is as you say nonsense, and everything the NIMBY organistations want to try and blind the general public with.

So you're saying that wind power doesn't need to be backed up by conventional power for the majority of the time when it isn't working anywhere near it's rated capacity?

 

[wilber]

So you're saying that wind power doesn't need to be backed up by conventional power for the majority of the time when it isn't working anywhere near it's rated capacity?

No, what I am saying is the NIMBY's like to advertise the fact that wind power needs backup as though it is exclusive to wind power. When in fact every source of generation needs backup.

 

[Freefaller]

Even nuclear needs backup to cope with peaks and troughs.

 

[wilber]

Rather than what Bry said to Tom in the pub who was told by Carol whilst shopping, here is a case study of Ysgellog Windfarm on Anglesey and where the money went.
Page 14:

http://www.renewableuk.com/en/publications/index.cfm/Local-Supply-Chain-Opportunities-Onshore-Wind

35% of the total construction budget was spent in anglesy
71% of the total construction budget was spent in wales

 

[ubersonic]

No, what I am saying is the NIMBY's like to advertise the fact that wind power needs backup as though it is exclusive to wind power. When in fact every source of generation needs backup.

The is a massive difference however between planning for the day something fails, and planning for the day something actually works.

It isn't exclusive to wind power but it effects it more severely than anything else (except solar ofc).

 

[wilber]

I'm not really sure what your point is, It just seems to me you are trying to demonstrate how much knowledge you lack with the day to day workings of our National Grid.

 

[ubersonic]

I'm not really sure what your point is

I did make it quite clear, but to take it to the extreme: Planning for the day normal power needs to be supplemented because it isn't working properly, and planning for the day wind power does not need to be supplemented because it's working somewhere near it's rated output, are very different, because the chances of wind power not needing to be supplemented because it's working somewhere near it's rated output are significantly lower.

It's all well and good to say they both need backup, but the reality is wind doesn't need backup because it's not a primary source of power, just a supplementary one.

And that's why the UK being the world leader in wind power is nothing worth shouting about like some people (not you)like to, because we didn't beat anyone to that title, it's just other countries recognised it would be a bonehead move.

 

[wilber]

It's all well and good to say they both need backup, but the reality is wind doesn't need backup because it's not a primary source of power, just a supplementary one.

Exactly the point of renewable energy. We supplement the grid with clean renewable energy rather than dirty hydrocarbons.

This lowers our dependance on gas/coal.... I'll let you into a little secret why? Because we are using less of it! That's the whole game plan.

You really are quite confusing with your arguements against wind/renewable energy....

 

[ubersonic]

Exactly the point of renewable energy. We supplement the grid with clean renewable energy rather than dirty hydrocarbons.

This lowers our dependance on gas/coal.... I'll let you into a little secret why? Because we are using less of it! That's the whole game plan.

*claps* good good you're getting there, now for the tough bit.

If we invest loads and loads on the supplementary power generation, and ignore the primary power generation. Then we are going to end up with loads and loads of nice windmills that very rarely live up to their potential, and lots of outdated conventional power.

On the other hand, if we forget about being the big awesome world leader in wind power and just invest a sensible amount into it like other countries, we can also replace our old power stations with modern ones, and have better overall returns while needing to spend less subsidisation.

To put this into a very simple example, if we build enough turbines to supplement two coal power stations then over the course of a year we will have cut our CO2 emissions. But, if instead we build less turbines and replace the two coal power stations with a new gas one then over the course of a year we will have cut our CO2 emissions more.

You really are quite confusing with your arguements against wind/renewable energy....

That wasn't an argument against, that was me clarifying a point you claimed to be having trouble with.