Wind Turbines, hopefully on their way out

[wilber]

*claps* good good you're getting there, now for the tough bit.

If we invest loads and loads on the supplementary power generation, and ignore the primary power generation. Then we are going to end up with loads and loads of nice windmills that very rarely live up to their potential, and lots of outdated conventional power.

On the other hand, if we forget about being the big awesome world leader in wind power and just invest a sensible amount into it like other countries, we can also replace our old power stations with modern ones, and have better overall returns while needing to spend less subsidisation.

To put this into a very simple example, if we build enough turbines to supplement two coal power stations then over the course of a year we will have cut our CO2 emissions. But, if instead we build less turbines and replace the two coal power stations with a new gas one then over the course of a year we will have cut our CO2 emissions more.




That wasn't an argument against, that was me clarifying a point you claimed to be having trouble with.

You seem to love to cherry pick and put in place your own made up solutions. I edited the below for you.

To put this into a very simple example, if we build enough turbines to supplement two coal power stations then over the course of a year we will have cut our CO2 emissions. Then, if we replace the two coal power stations with a new gas one then over the course of a year we will have cut our CO2 emissions more.

You see, we do both, phase out coal completely. Use nuclear as a base load, gas and renewables for everything else. There is no either or solution. I really am struggling to grab your position here. As I have stated we need a mix of generation. Ideally that is nuclear/renewable and gas.

You have yet to provide me with any evidence for all of your arguements or points against wind/renewable energy.

I take it i'll be waiting awhile.

 

[ubersonic]

You see, we do both

We do but at the moment it is heavily skewed in favour of renewable energy and primary sources are being underfunded. Hence the above examples of what we are/should be doing.

phase out coal completely. Use nuclear as a base load, gas and renewables for everything else.

A better place to get to would be to further nuclear development and phase out both coal and gas using solar/wind for supplementary power.

You have yet to provide me with any evidence for all of your arguements or points against wind/renewable energy.

I told you earlier I don't have the time in work to spend ages Googling old news articles. I said I would try and find them later.

 

[Trifid]

A better place to get to would be to further nuclear development and phase out both coal and gas using solar/wind for supplementary power.

You can't do that though. You need to back up unpredictable renewables with something that can react fairly fast, which gas would be the best one to do so. Nuclear is best for base load and pumped water storage is the best for responding to short term high peaks (such as at the end of Eastenders).

 

[Tefal]

Certainly the same with wind power.

pretty sure you cant run a foundry or aluminium smelter off a wind farm.

also probably not likely that wind farm will employ all the workers from our current nuclear power plant that's shutting down.

 

[Tefal]

Then, if we replace the two coal power stations with a new gas one then over the course of a year we will have cut our CO2 emissions more.

and put a lot of people out of work \o/

 

[StriderX]

and put a lot of people out of work \o/

Well its better than displacing entire estuaries because we failed to act surely?

Thankfully living in doomed places is not a problem for me, doesn't make me happy though.

 

[Tefal]

Really because the only serious Nuclear power plant companies are all either French or Japanese, so...regardless i think it matters little.

one of the UKs major exports is nuclear reactor components. We make a lot of stuff for reactors here as we have the engineering knowledge, skills and equipment.

just because they're being made for foreign companies doesn't mean they arnt British workers building them.

 

[mjt]

I personally think wind turbines are great pieces of engineering. They're awesome. Literally.

 

[altus]

Based on outdated research from 1997 by the former director of the National Grid who is an outspoken anti wind campaigner.?

The latest update to his research is 2010, do you not think he is an outspoken anti wind campaigner because he understands the issue.

As has been stated in this thread it's reached grid parity.
And what about the billions in fines we will face if we do not hit our targets?

There is no grid parity, someone stating that in this thread does not make it a fact.
The market is rigged to make wind not look as bad as it is.
What part of http://www.civitas.org.uk/economy/electricitycosts2012.pdf
do you actually disagree with ?

Dr. Gabriel Calzada Álvarez`s study found that for every four jobs created by Spain's expensive green technology program, nine jobs were lost.

Electricity generated was so expensive that each "green" megawatt installed in the power grid destroyed five jobs elsewhere in the economy by raising business costs.
I could commission 10,000 Ed Milliband statues and create jobs!

 

[Domi]

For me the one thing that never seems to get enough mention in this debate is that Wind Farms in conjunction with Tidal , Solar and a small backup of gas and/or Nuclear could make the UK completely self sufficient for energy.

It is perfectly possible that within 10 to 15 years most new cars will be Electric in the UK and if that Electricity is made by renewable sources within the UK surely that would have a huge knock on effect for the UK as a whole.

 

[Glaucus]

For me the one thing that never seems to get enough mention in this debate is that Wind Farms in conjunction with Tidal , Solar and a small backup of gas and/or Nuclear could make the UK completely self sufficient for energy.

It is perfectly possible that within 10 to 15 years most new cars will be Electric in the UK and if that Electricity is made by renewable sources within the UK surely that would have a huge knock on effect for the UK as a whole.

You should know talking sense is frowned upon in GD.
Don't talk about energy security, importing billions pounds worth of hydrocarbons, thousands of deaths by polluting coal and gas or anything else.

 

[semi-pro waster]

Not getting into the debate about efficiency in comparison to other sources of energy as quite frankly I just don't know enough but on a purely aesthetic level I quite like the look of wind turbines. The designs in the link in the original post don't appeal in the same way but it could be a useful alternative depending on how well it transitions to production and whether it makes the mooted levels of power.

 

[rG-tom]

Subsea hardware. flexible risers and umbilicals.

ahhhh...interesting. you either work for one of my company's customers or competitors

 

[neil_g]

They are an eyesore and swans are sometimes killed flying into them as they have poor eyesite. Get rid of them I say.

Swans also die from flying into high voltage power lines. Let's rip all of those down too?

Nuclear power would be better as it is clean and does not spoil the countryside and is safer for swans and other birds for that matter.

Since when has nuclear waste been clean? Do you know how long that stuff stays toxic?

 

[wilber]

pretty sure you cant run a foundry or aluminium smelter off a wind farm.

also probably not likely that wind farm will employ all the workers from our current nuclear power plant that's shutting down.

and put a lot of people out of work \o/

When did I ever suggest shutting down our nuclear facilities Tefal?

As i have stated time and time again it's import we have an energy mix.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Let's be honest.... Alfiemarley is basic Tony Williams.

I don't think wind farms are ugly, and I'm not sure that vistas that people care for should really be priority. If you can damage fewer environments by putting turbines in a nice view, that makes more sense from an energy usage perspective, which is surely what this is about.

I'm not suggesting that we ruin all the countryside in England, but we have to accept that our energy usage is damaging and that we might have to compromise beauty for long term gain.

Certainly the government chosen isn't the ideal party for long term energy sustainability.

 

[FoxEye]

I personally think wind turbines are great pieces of engineering. They're awesome. Literally.

Someone told me we have more of them down here in the SW than anywhere else, but I never got round to verifying that. Even if true, I don't mind in the slightest.

They really are fantastic. They've just upgraded a bunch near me, replaced the smaller original ones with a few truly gigantic ones. Awesome is a good word for them.

Is OP another NIMBY? There are a surprising number of people who believe (sincerely) that all green initiatives are pointless; that there is no need to invest in renewables, and that traditional fossil fuel generation is all we need. Coz it's cheap and doesn't "ruin the view". It's actually quite a common viewpoint. Some people are just deeply mistrusting of any and all green technology. Be it solar or wind or hydro. Funny, but true.

 

[Tefal]

When did I ever suggest shutting down our nuclear facilities Tefal?

where did i say you did? the plants being decommissioned as its old lol.

As i have stated time and time again it's import we have an energy mix.

you just said get rid of coal that's less of a mix, and you did say shut down the 2 coal plants hats a lot of peoples jobs that arnt getting replaced for not much gain from the windfarms.

 

[wilber]

pretty sure you cant run a foundry or aluminium smelter off a wind farm.

also probably not likely that wind farm will employ all the workers from our current nuclear power plant that's shutting down.

Quite clearly infere here after quoting me that I suggest wind power is a replacement for nuclear... Never even suggested it. Do not even understand why you even brought it up...

Coal needs to go its an incredibly dirty fuel... I clearly stated what I believe our mix should be. Is your vision impaired?

Perhaps we should still be processing wool using 1800 techniques you know to employ more people, and not concern ourselves with the environemental or health impacts.

 

[Django x2]

I was never a big fan.......


















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