Wind Turbines, hopefully on their way out
- Thread starter Old Man
- Start date
Our population is damaging tbh, intensive agriculture is almost as bad as climate change for the environment so we're ****** either way.
That said we should do our bit to reduce that, renewable energy, more locally sourced produce and ultimately reduce the number of kids we all have to less than 2.
Edit: with less moving parts is there a greater potential to integrate these into high rise buildings? The top of a 20 story building is going to be quite windy.
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At the end of the day, as an individual you are either for or against renewable energy as a whole.
There is no justification in saying tidal/solar is better than onshore wind generation other than a subjective opinion. NIMBY Organisations feed off proven falacies and promote them as fact. Here are few common misconceptions just from this thread....
On the energy cost's of production...
Payback within 6 months at the earliest.
On Noise...
There are laws in place regarding noise...
On birds....
They are bird murdering meat grinders... Windows are far far worse..
On Diesel backup being a norm.
yeah that's what all those white boxes are next them....
On subsidy
Take away renewable subsidy and give renewables monetary benefits the same as hydrocarbons recieve then
On Jobs and where the money goes.
Daily mail articles at best...
Missed the damage to the North Wales Tourism quote too...
Scaremonger at it's finest.
There is no justification in saying tidal/solar is better than onshore wind generation other than a subjective opinion. NIMBY Organisations feed off proven falacies and promote them as fact. Here are few common misconceptions just from this thread....
On the energy cost's of production...
Payback within 6 months at the earliest.
On Noise...
There are laws in place regarding noise...
On birds....
They are bird murdering meat grinders... Windows are far far worse..
On Diesel backup being a norm.
yeah that's what all those white boxes are next them....
On subsidy
Take away renewable subsidy and give renewables monetary benefits the same as hydrocarbons recieve then
On Jobs and where the money goes.
Daily mail articles at best...
Missed the damage to the North Wales Tourism quote too...
Scaremonger at it's finest.
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These work from wind behaviour that architects try to eliminate from buildings, adding them to the top of tall buildings is probably not the best idea
At the end of the day, as an individual you are either for or against renewable energy as a whole.
There is no justification in saying tidal/solar is better than onshore wind generation other than a subjective opinion. NIMBY Organisations feed off proven falacies and promote them as fact. Here are few common misconceptions just from this thread....
On the energy cost's of production...
Payback within 6 months at the earliest.
On Noise...
There are laws in place regarding noise...
On birds....
They are bird murdering meat grinders... Windows are far far worse..
On Diesel backup being a norm.
yeah that's what all those white boxes are next them....
On subsidy
Take away renewable subsidy and give renewables monetary benefits the same as hydrocarbons recieve then
On Jobs and where the money goes.
Daily mail articles at best...
Missed the damage to the North Wales Tourism quote too...
Scaremonger at it's finest.
So you really want renewable energy firms to pay a 60-80% tariff on any revenue generated from the sale of electricity and then pay standard corporation tax on any profits? I think you'll have just killed renewables for a very long time! Tax breaks specific to hydrocarbons (as opposed to those that would also be relevant in the renewable industry) are generally based round the fact the hydrocarbon industry pays supplementary taxes over and above what other industries pay. (In the UK)
These work from wind behaviour that architects try to eliminate from buildings, adding them to the top of tall buildings is probably not the best idea
Vortexes are a problem between buildings rather than at the top/above buildings are they not? I presume these aren't creating massive external vortexes, if they were then use onshore would be very dangerous...
Edit: the oscillation of the actual pylon could be an issue for some buildings but I'm sure a system to negate that oscillation could be invented pretty simply, such as a smaller version of the systems used in earthquake proof buildings put between the system and building it is on.
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Soldato
- Joined
- 5 Feb 2006
- Posts
- 3,524
i really like wind turbines. find them rather soothing, also like how they look.
Wilber
You obviously have no idea what the Short Term Operating Reserve (STOR) is, or how many Tax exemptions and subsidies are used to promote wind farms.
STOR`s primary purpose is to provide back-up for "green" wind energy.
By using Diesel generators producing emissions at a similar level to that of coal.
Yet their primary purpose is to provide back-up for "green" wind energy.
There are huge amounts of money to be made:
http://www.invictacapital.co.uk/electronic_mailshots/Store/ESCO_STOR_investor_presentation.pdf
Minimum Subscription £50,000 or £25,000
- Income tax relief at 30%
- Capital Gains Tax exemption
- Capital Gain Tax deferral relief
- Loss relief
Target IRR 21% - 3 - 4 year hold with EIS relief
Investors are told that the "significant upward trend in the requirement for reserve services" is due to "decreased power supply following from the decommissioning of ageing nuclear power plants" and "increased volatility of power supply caused by increased reliance on renewables (due to the high proportion of wind power, renewables are not a consistent source of power) ".
The average contracted utilisation payment for STOR paid by National Grid in 2011 was around £225/MWh, in addition to an availability payment of around £22,000 per MW of firm reserve. A hospital offering its standby generators to the grid can make as much as £100,000 profit before even supplying any electricity.
This is just one example of what the Climate change act has enabled and promoted by setting such a high and unilateral C02 reduction target for 2050.
To hit its target [ and it will not ], it will damage the economy and will not control the global temperature in any way that is measurable.
You obviously have no idea what the Short Term Operating Reserve (STOR) is, or how many Tax exemptions and subsidies are used to promote wind farms.
STOR`s primary purpose is to provide back-up for "green" wind energy.
By using Diesel generators producing emissions at a similar level to that of coal.
Yet their primary purpose is to provide back-up for "green" wind energy.
There are huge amounts of money to be made:
http://www.invictacapital.co.uk/electronic_mailshots/Store/ESCO_STOR_investor_presentation.pdf
Minimum Subscription £50,000 or £25,000
- Income tax relief at 30%
- Capital Gains Tax exemption
- Capital Gain Tax deferral relief
- Loss relief
Target IRR 21% - 3 - 4 year hold with EIS relief
Investors are told that the "significant upward trend in the requirement for reserve services" is due to "decreased power supply following from the decommissioning of ageing nuclear power plants" and "increased volatility of power supply caused by increased reliance on renewables (due to the high proportion of wind power, renewables are not a consistent source of power) ".
The average contracted utilisation payment for STOR paid by National Grid in 2011 was around £225/MWh, in addition to an availability payment of around £22,000 per MW of firm reserve. A hospital offering its standby generators to the grid can make as much as £100,000 profit before even supplying any electricity.
This is just one example of what the Climate change act has enabled and promoted by setting such a high and unilateral C02 reduction target for 2050.
To hit its target [ and it will not ], it will damage the economy and will not control the global temperature in any way that is measurable.
Soldato
- Joined
- 13 May 2003
- Posts
- 8,983
Have done and would happily do so again, as long as I'm far enough away not hear the boiler safety valves lift when it trips.
I would rather wind farms weren't littered over the landscape reminding me of all that wasted money and effort.
Welp unfortunately there is less cynicism for Wind-farms compared to the ultimately better Nuclear Option.
This whole country is a farce, you either accept it or leave.
see full quote chain,
we were talking about the nuclear plant that's already in N Wales. a lot of people here would like a new one when it closes a lot more than they'd like a wind farm. You interjected about wind power being the same boost for jobs and industry which like i said you cant run a big aluminium plant off a wind farm like we do with our nuclear plant.
new clean coal plants aren't really that bad, but like i said that's much less of a mix that's actually a very big strategic hit, if necessary we've got hundreds of years of coal under our feet, expensive but there if we really need it.
get rid of all the coal plants and it then becomes something thats much harder for us to use (ie we have to refine it down to lighter hydro carbons rather than say using it for the grid and saving our oil stock for where its needed when things get tight.
wave for instance though is a constant load for most of the time outside of storms.
waves are regular occur every second of every day and we have a lot of coast.
Waves are unpredictable however which affects reliability and efficiency, same as wind. Wave power relies on wave speed/length/density to operate and these vary. They also, ironically, perform poorly in rough weather.
It also disrupts marine life, affects the sea bed, disrupts shipping and needs to be close enough to mainland for a network connection.
Tidal power generators would be better, they work at circa 80% efficiency and tidal prediction is very accurate compared to wave prediction. However, they only work well during tidal surges (<10hrs) and have expensive upfront costs.
Soldato
- Joined
- 20 Apr 2004
- Posts
- 4,390
- Location
- Oxford
When it comes to any of the main power generators (coal/gas/wind/nuclear) I see a lot of "not in my back yard" but still want the power and want cheaper power bills as well 
I can't have your cake and eat it.
It wasn't so long ago I herd some middle class middle age woman on Radio5 almost in tears from the "stress" of seeing wind wind turbine from the view of her kitchen window.......
I can't have your cake and eat it.
It wasn't so long ago I herd some middle class middle age woman on Radio5 almost in tears from the "stress" of seeing wind wind turbine from the view of her kitchen window.......