Windows 8 Consumer Preview Thread

Gimpymoo · 16 Oct 2012 at 14:20

DeathStorm said:
They were smart enough to release a metro and desktop version of IE, what about all the rest?

Owing to how Apps are self contained, the App version is restricted regarding usage of plugins however, for 90%+ of the target Windows 8 audience, I doubt they will even notice.

Personally, I think web 3.0 will probably make Apps redundant anyway but for the time being, there is a need among the masses.

mmj_uk · 16 Oct 2012 at 16:04

Nismo said:
Having to have 2 instances of certain apps, and not carrying settings between each for example?

They may not plan for the desktop to be around in the long term which would explain the total lack of integration between metro and the desktop.

It's entirely possible that the desktop will be removed once metro has better application support and users have been sufficiently dumbed down to not using it.

ic1male · 16 Oct 2012 at 16:13

mmj_uk said:
It's entirely possible that the desktop will be removed once metro has better application support and users have been sufficiently dumbed down to not using it.

Crikey. That would render the entire Windows games library obselete. Unless they can find a way to launch from Metro.

theheyes · 16 Oct 2012 at 16:34

The desktop is an app (theoretically) so it doesn't make sense to start building special dependencies between it and Metro. Even the share contract doesn't work.

And don't worry about the Desktop going away entirely. It won't.

ChileanLlama · 16 Oct 2012 at 16:49

Apps are lacking at the moment - and TBH - I don't like the way it's going. The quality is quite poor in the main at the moment, though I expect some flagship apps being held back for launch.

The desktop will not be going anywhere fast, one of the key benefits of Windows has been it's backwards compatability - and we still have a command prompt.

Also the desktop is treated as an app, but it also isn't sandboxed in the same way as the true Windows 8 Apps are - basically MS want to ensure quality control and reduce vulnerabilities through Windows 8 Apps, so they're never going to allow full interaction between desktop, because of the nature of what can be run there, and Metro.

djkav · 16 Oct 2012 at 16:49

theheyes said:
The desktop is an app (theoretically.

No the desktop is not an app, just like Metro is not its self an app.

Both the desktop and Metro are User Interfaces for the OS.

The desktop is the usual WIMP (Windows Icons Menus Pointer) and Metro is a touch (designed) interface.

NuclearWinter · 16 Oct 2012 at 17:42

mmj_uk said:
They may not plan for the desktop to be around in the long term which would explain the total lack of integration between metro and the desktop.

It's entirely possible that the desktop will be removed once metro has better application support and users have been sufficiently dumbed down to not using it.

I can't think of much worse for a desktop PC than all programs becoming non-resizable metro apps, with the option of only docking one other app down one side. Not sure why anyone would choose to use a metro app over a desktop one.

OspreyO · 16 Oct 2012 at 17:54

ChileanLlama said:
... the desktop is treated as an app, but it also isn't sandboxed in the same way as the true Windows 8 Apps are ,,,

I have no idea what you are talking about. The legacy win32 api is still there. Desktop apps are the same as they ever were.

Thats why its not sandboxed.

OspreyO · 16 Oct 2012 at 17:59

NuclearWinter said:
I can't think of much worse for a desktop PC than all programs becoming non-resizable metro apps, with the option of only docking one other app down one side. Not sure why anyone would choose to use a metro app over a desktop one.

I don't think they will. That said people make everything a web app these days for no real reason when a regular app would work much better.

theheyes · 16 Oct 2012 at 18:04

djkav said:
No the desktop is not an app, just like Metro is not its self an app.

Both the desktop and Metro are User Interfaces for the OS.

The desktop is the usual WIMP (Windows Icons Menus Pointer) and Metro is a touch (designed) interface.

Note I said theoretically and not literally.

Metro owns the desktop and it is logically treated as an app.

ChileanLlama · 16 Oct 2012 at 18:21

OspreyO said:
I have no idea what you are talking about. The legacy win32 api is still there. Desktop apps are the same as they ever were.

Thats why its not sandboxed.

Blame MS

Windows 8 Apps is the name for Metro Apps which is confusing with traditional desktop applications.

Windows 8 Apps (i.e. Metro Apps) are sandboxed, the desktop apps (i.e. not Windows 8 Apps i.e. not Metro apps) are not sandboxed, hence why MS will never allow full integration between desktop and Metro.

You're right the traditional desktop apps are exactly the same.

Hope that clears it up, but blame MS for their poor naming of "Metro" apps!!!

ChileanLlama · 16 Oct 2012 at 18:23

theheyes said:
Note I said theoretically and not literally.

Metro owns the desktop and it is logically treated as an app.

That's right, Metro is launched on boot, the desktop isn't until it's launched via Metro (unless you have multiple monitors in which case the desktop is also launched on boot, with Metro having focus/overlaying it).

OspreyO · 16 Oct 2012 at 20:01

theheyes said:
Note I said theoretically and not literally.

Metro owns the desktop and it is logically treated as an app.

Where are you pulling this from?

Deleted member 77746 · 16 Oct 2012 at 20:05

OspreyO said:
Where are you pulling this from?

thin air

OspreyO · 16 Oct 2012 at 20:16

ChileanLlama said:
Blame MS

Windows 8 Apps is the name for Metro Apps which is confusing with traditional desktop applications.

Windows 8 Apps (i.e. Metro Apps) are sandboxed, the desktop apps (i.e. not Windows 8 Apps i.e. not Metro apps) are not sandboxed, hence why MS will never allow full integration between desktop and Metro.

You're right the traditional desktop apps are exactly the same.

Hope that clears it up, but blame MS for their poor naming of "Metro" apps!!!

Thats got nothing to do with what I said.

OspreyO said:
I have no idea what you are talking about. The legacy win32 api is still there. Desktop apps are the same as they ever were.

Thats why its not sandboxed.

I said desktop apps and I meant desktop apps.

As for MS never allowing integration between metro and the desktop/win32...

Microsoft has three development scenarios for Windows 8: Classic - Windows 7-style 32-bit APIs that won't work with Metro; Metro that lives in a sandboxed environment; and "Metro-style enabled" desktop apps that straddle Classic and Metro and call both sets of APIs.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/10/mozilla_google_win8_arm_browser_dark_ages/print.html

theheyes · 16 Oct 2012 at 20:16

Trust me I know what I'm talking about.

rogueblade · 16 Oct 2012 at 20:24

Loving the new Surface ad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8mSckyoAMHg
edit: though I won't buy the RT version

ChileanLlama · 16 Oct 2012 at 20:32

OspreyO said:
Thats got nothing to do with what I said.

I said desktop apps and I meant desktop apps.

As for MS never allowing integration between metro and the desktop/win32...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/10/mozilla_google_win8_arm_browser_dark_ages/print.html

Now I don't know what you're on about. I said they wouldn't allow "full interaction" and "full integration" between the two. I never said "no" integration/interaction so what exactly are you disagreeing with?

IT Troll · 17 Oct 2012 at 00:18

Some of the Interface design decisions just seem to be bonkers. Basic tasks are restricted to the Modern UI whilst more advanced tasks are restricted to classic Windows dialog boxes, with no crossover whatsoever.

I want to delete a user account, so from the Modern Start Menu I go into settings > user accounts but there is no delete button. So I delve into the classic control panel > user accounts where I am allowed to delete accounts. Now I want to create a new account, guess what, not here you don't, back to the dumbed-down interface for that task.

The same is true of many of the more useful control panel apps. The classic control panel for advanced wi-fi settings lets you do every except actually manage your wi-fi networks. I can understand the basic interface for everyday tasks but why remove these from the advanced interface.

Another one that cracked me up was creating a system image backup of my new Windows 8 install. To do this you go to classic control panel > file history > windows 7 file history (yes they really called it that) > create system image. Bonkers.

theheyes · 17 Oct 2012 at 16:42

For user accounts just use the computer management console it works exactly as before.