Windows 8 Consumer Preview Thread
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Since Microsoft are sort of turning into Apple I expect the increase in marketing budget to be sustained. I dont expect anything less than a carpet bombing of Windows 8 and Surface ads over the next three months.
Add to the mix Office, IE10, Windows Phone, Xbox and other Microsoft hardware there really isn't a reason not to be seeing Microsoft ads all year round.
Add to the mix Office, IE10, Windows Phone, Xbox and other Microsoft hardware there really isn't a reason not to be seeing Microsoft ads all year round.
That's annoying several good apps have been released recently and I can't find them on the store. Just realized why. You have to be running RTM, not pre release.
I want to have a look at Netflix.
Also wondered why I couldn't find the firefox, bing and updated MS apps. Same reason.
A good site to keep track on the pathetically low number of apps, hopfully that'll change fast, at least we've got confirmation of upcoming apps for lots of the big players. Also gives you interesting/good apps in each section.
http://www.winappupdate.com/
This is the best stat I've been trying to find for a while.
Great news for everyone, developers are doing the small port needed to run on both.
ATM it's adding roughly 100apps a day,
I want to have a look at Netflix.
Also wondered why I couldn't find the firefox, bing and updated MS apps. Same reason.
A good site to keep track on the pathetically low number of apps, hopfully that'll change fast, at least we've got confirmation of upcoming apps for lots of the big players. Also gives you interesting/good apps in each section.
http://www.winappupdate.com/
This is the best stat I've been trying to find for a while.
Great news for everyone, developers are doing the small port needed to run on both.
ATM it's adding roughly 100apps a day,
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I still wake up each morning and read the tech sites hoping that Microsoft have come to their senses and decided to divide Windows up into separate Metro and Desktop versions.
I personally think that's the best way forward, that way the phones, tablets, and touch screens can have the Metro version and the gamers can keep their desktop one.
Hell, even Apple aren't brave enough to try one OS for all platforms, to me that speaks volumes.
I personally think that's the best way forward, that way the phones, tablets, and touch screens can have the Metro version and the gamers can keep their desktop one.
Hell, even Apple aren't brave enough to try one OS for all platforms, to me that speaks volumes.
They just didn't think of it first. iOS will replace OS X on the desktop soon enough.
(iMac and Power Mac will disappear so that just leaves Macbooks.)Well that's the key thing - replace. They've not tried some hybrid of the two, instead they've designed an OS from the ground up to be totally touch-compatible, much like Android.
Where Windows 8 struggles in that regard is that you have a modern, touch-based OS (Metro) mixed directly with a 15+ year old mouse-and-keyboard friendly one (Desktop).
Microsoft should have just swung the axe at the desktop for the touch devices and got rid altogether. I mean who on a touch device is going to bother with the desktop?
Where Windows 8 struggles in that regard is that you have a modern, touch-based OS (Metro) mixed directly with a 15+ year old mouse-and-keyboard friendly one (Desktop).
Microsoft should have just swung the axe at the desktop for the touch devices and got rid altogether. I mean who on a touch device is going to bother with the desktop?
Touch only device?
Well lets look at that statement, oh look every single tablet announced so far either comes with a keyboard dock or has an optional keyboard dock.
Metro does not affect the desktop.
Company's are going to flock to win8 on tablets.
W8 strong point is due to being truly universal, the worst thing they could do is split it.
Well lets look at that statement, oh look every single tablet announced so far either comes with a keyboard dock or has an optional keyboard dock.
Metro does not affect the desktop.
Company's are going to flock to win8 on tablets.
W8 strong point is due to being truly universal, the worst thing they could do is split it.
I think it really does. I don't think Apple are capable of nor willing to try something this ambitious. They are printing their own money at the moment so why tinker with a winning formula, whereas Microsoft are fast approaching the adapt or die stage so it's no surprise where the innovation is coming from.
Microsoft completely wipe the floor with Apple as a software vendor but it remains to be seen whether their upcoming hardware follows suit. The competition will be interesting.
This is where a lot of people don't see outside of the box. If I plug my Surface Pro into a monitor, I don't want to be constrained to Metro - I want to launch the desktop.
Just because you connect a keyboard to a tablet it does not change the primary input device. No matter what you do to a touch screen device, the touch screen still remains the primary input, and as such, does not work with the desktop.
It's like on my PC, I have a 360 controller. Does that make it the primary input device? No, not at all. It's there to supplement the mouse and keyboard on games that don't suit those two as the input. It doesn't mean I can disconnect them both and put them away.
I can't believe you just called the richest, most valuable company in the world unambitious. Apple got where they are by innovating but keeping things realistic and usable. And in order to do that, Mr Jobs must have come to the conclusion at some point that OSX would not work on the iPod Touch, iPhone or iPad.
After all, it costs money to develop a whole new OS, so if OSX could have been made to work, I would have 100% expected Apple to just go that route rather than start with a blank canvas. What Microsoft have done does smack a little of "can't be bothered to do it properly", when all it would take it to separate Windows 8 and Windows 8 Metro into two products. But then that means two loads of marketing etc.
As said above - why? The touch screen still remains the primary input device, in which case you'd take the interface designed for it?
I have a smartphone and a small laptop so I don't have a tablet, and I probably won't for a while - but if I had a Microsoft Surface tablet i'd want to stay in Metro 100% of the time where possible, no matter what it's plugged into or what is plugged into it. After all, that's surely the point?
Lol what hyperbol. Can I use the supplied keyboard and touchpad like a normal laptop and use the desktop.
Yes I can. Give up your talking utter BS, it makes you look silly.
Primary control method, means little on search devices. I can use any method I want, with no hassle at all. They all equally work as well as each other.
Yes I can. Give up your talking utter BS, it makes you look silly.
Primary control method, means little on search devices. I can use any method I want, with no hassle at all. They all equally work as well as each other.
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I will thanks, discuss away, but you aren't discussing it your making rubbish up as you've been caught out.
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If you plug 2 keyboards into a computer what's your primary input device? Equally so if you buy a touch screen for your computer does that detract from the keyboard and mouse in any way?
You're missing the point of Windows 8, if I buy a Windows 8 slate and hook it up to a monitor, keyboard and mouse assuming it's got some decent hardware it's not really any different from a laptop or a full desktop.
Who cares how much they're worth on the stock market, that's like saying Coca-cola is an exciting innovative company because they're the top soft drink brand. Right now Apple have introduced no real innovative features, just look at the products they've released lately for an example of this (iPhone 5, new iPad, iPod, Nano, Macbook). Don't respond with a list of all the updates they've received, the point is about the difference between innovation and evolution.
Yes it does cost money to update an OS, that's probably why Apple have been treating OSX like a poor relative as they've never been able to crack the PC market so they focus on what actually makes them serious money, hell I wouldn't argue with someone who called Apple a smartphone company rather than a computer company.
You're terribly mistaken about Windows 8, the approach they've taken is far harder than releasing two products and far more ambitious. If you do a little research you'll realise that's the approach they've had for years and it hasn't worked out well for them (which they kinda deserve). I actually think it would be a shame for Microsoft to fail on one of the most ambitious things they've ever done, I want to see more companies taking such chances rather than just milking a cash cow.
Why do you keep going on about primary input devices, there is no primary input device for Windows 8 because it's been designed to function with multiple. You can choose, if done right choice is a very good thing.
I'm not trying to be obtuse, I just don't understand why you would turn a tablet into a desktop computer by adding a mouse or trackpad. If you took the Surface to work, surely you'd add a keyboard to make typing easier and then just stick in Metro to do everything you need to do?
I know you'll claim flexibility, but to me it just screams overcomplication, and I can't see it being used that much either.
Plus you're forgetting one key market - hardcore gaming. At least for the moment, tablets are still quite far behind in terms of GPU power. What about those people? Is it fair to cast them out on their ears?
I'd say they're a "tech" company as the smartphone sales and revenue are still only a part of their overall portfolio. I mean there's the iPad, and the fact that (at least where I went) education institutions still prefer the Mac for graphical work.
And lest we forget, they do love a nice pitched court battle.
But still, I do expect if they could have gotten OSX to work as a touch interface, they would have done it. I expect you'll disagree, but it's cheaper than developing iOS, and that's all that matters to a company like Apple.
It's failed so far because prior to Windows Phone 7, their phone OS sucked big time. Windows Phone 7 was and is utterly excellent, and I see no need to combine it with the desktop OS at all. All it needs is investment in the App Store and updates to keep pace with the likes of Android and iOS and it'll be absolutely fine.
Instead we have Microsoft taking risks with it. And there's just no need for that at all. Windows Phone 7 was ambitious, and was working, albeit slowly.
Because Microsoft could have two operating systems, one excellent for tablets and one excellent for mouse and keyboard. Instead we have a single one that is excellent for neither because we're playing trade-off.
And how many of your work software runs on metro?
For us home users how many games run on metro?
you are not seeing the big picture and getting stuck on something.
They will still run games and the transformer book will have a discreet graphics card.
But that's unimportant as it doesn't need to convert everyone away from a desktop and it won't.
There is a massive need to combine Os, companies are using mobile computing more and more and home users are just purly upping sticks and moving away from desktops. Need to combine Os so Coporations can have one software that works on all their devices and MS need home users to stick with windows.
best thing they have done in the last decade+ is combine OS.
Your beloved desktop is unmolested, still there, still works just how it used to. Now you have all the benefits off a combined Os and the devlopment bonuses that brings.
Off course they could have two OS, but it wouldn't of been the smart move.
For us home users how many games run on metro?
you are not seeing the big picture and getting stuck on something.
They will still run games and the transformer book will have a discreet graphics card.
But that's unimportant as it doesn't need to convert everyone away from a desktop and it won't.
There is a massive need to combine Os, companies are using mobile computing more and more and home users are just purly upping sticks and moving away from desktops. Need to combine Os so Coporations can have one software that works on all their devices and MS need home users to stick with windows.
best thing they have done in the last decade+ is combine OS.
Your beloved desktop is unmolested, still there, still works just how it used to. Now you have all the benefits off a combined Os and the devlopment bonuses that brings.
Off course they could have two OS, but it wouldn't of been the smart move.
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Unambitious in the context of operating systems, yes, without a doubt. Apple play it very safe. There haven't been any major changes to iOS and OSX for years. I've said it before - with Apple gear the software is just along for the ride. It's a consumer electronics company.
Just because Steve Jobs didn't (possibly) think it was a good idea doesn't mean he's right. I have big respect for the guy but he wasn't always correct. And don't forget, it's arguable that unifying the OSs is not in Apple's business interest as they would prefer to sell you two devices rather than one that does both.
Microsoft have done the complete opposite of 'not being bothered' with Windows 8. I guarantee you there will be some clenched buttocks at Redmond over the next few months because this version is a gamble.
No, having the choice is the point. Why would I want Metro on a 24" screen? If I'm going to the trouble of docking it with a monitor/mouse/keyboard then I obviously have some work to do - Word, Lightroom, or even just organising the file system and moving content back and forth. I want windows.
At the end of the day we're going in circles. Reading back what i've put, most of it is opinion - opinion I think is valid but that you think is not.
All I know is, with the option to remove Metro and have the desktop with the normal Start Menu, Windows 8 would have been a day one purchase for me. Instead, i'm left with a bit of a bad taste as I feel, as a gamer, i've been forgotten.
All I know is, with the option to remove Metro and have the desktop with the normal Start Menu, Windows 8 would have been a day one purchase for me. Instead, i'm left with a bit of a bad taste as I feel, as a gamer, i've been forgotten.
But if you're just using Windows as a launch pad for games, then why would a Start menu be a deal breaker?
Well the fact that they developed iOS and didn't just try to work OSX into something that would work in a touch environment. I mean there was the risk that Apple users would just reject it en-masse simply because it wasn't OSX.
I do tend to think he got the overall plan correct though, even allowing for the fact that some of the smaller parts of iOS do need work. I just don't think OSX with (for example) the Applications folder replaced with a whole different OS geared towards a different input type would have worked at all.
If the desktop is archaic, then fair enough - leave it to those with the archaic Mouse and Keyboard, and give the touch users a pure touch screen OS. I can't see how adding a mouse to a Microsoft Surface would help it at all - you'd just be better sticking totally in Metro, after all things like Office are still going to work if you keep the underlying kernel.
I think that the vision of one OS is a hell of a gamble, yes. But there are ways that Metro and Desktop could have been combined better, and I think that the way they are combined is a bit of a "bodge".
Metro is still Windows! Just have everything load over Metro like IE can, and do away with the Desktop for tablets altogether.
Because to me, Metro is faff when i'm using a keyboard and mouse. I don't want the bother of learning a new interface, the majority of whose features I won't ever use. I just want DirectX to run as fast as possible, in a clean, familiar interface. I know that is purely subjective but surely you can appreciate where i'm coming from?
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