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With no dates for DLSS or Ray-Tracing enabled games, is being worried more than a conspiracy theory?

razorpakk

razorpakk

razorpakk

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How would you sell RTX cards? You would probably make sure there is at least a high profile game which supports Ray-Tracing and another one supporting DLSS from day one.

But then something happens and you realize software won't be ready. You manage to get FFXV's demo readily available to showcase DLSS and a few other things (I guess the infiltrator demo is available).

You couldn't even produce a tiny interactive demo to showcase Ray-Tracing capabilities, letting us play with lights and shadows. Why? The performance isn't good enough?

What would be next to sell those cards? Let's find out when we can actually provide DLSS and Ray-Tracing support, let's give our customers a solid date.

But where are the dates? I guess they're still unsure. Yes, it's up to the developers, but Nvidia must have their own people working with them on a few high-profile games. But they still can't provide us with dates.

Why did I write this? I might buy a 2080 soon, but I think we should all be much more skeptical about DLSS, just the same way we already are about Ray-Tracing. If we don't have a single date it means DLSS patches might be far away. And the fact Nvidia is completely silent is even worst.
 
Why would you be worried? If you're not confident that the hardware features are going to be utilised in any meaningful way then don't buy a card.

Yes, this launch is a mess. Yes, Nvidia should have LOTS of tangible things to showcase the new toys and make the price hike somewhat more palatable. Yes, Nvidia should have more concrete dates to entice prospective buyers to pull the trigger now. And yes, the absence of all these things feels suspect and much like Steve Jobs' "reality distortion field". But they don't have data, it is what it is, and if you're skeptical then don't part with your money.
 
10 years in the making and zero games with rtx to run on your £1100+ 2080ti. That's some funny ****. I would not be investing in Turing for ray tracing.
 
I don't think conspiracy theory quite fits here, the technologies either take off or they don't. You simply don't buy a 2 series card right now if you're at all concerned about them 2 areas or you buy a 2080ti for the raw performance increase it gives.
 
LePhuronn said:
Why would you be worried? If you're not confident that the hardware features are going to be utilised in any meaningful way then don't buy a card.

Yes, this launch is a mess. Yes, Nvidia should have LOTS of tangible things to showcase the new toys and make the price hike somewhat more palatable. Yes, Nvidia should have more concrete dates to entice prospective buyers to pull the trigger now. And yes, the absence of all these things feels suspect and much like Steve Jobs' "reality distortion field". But they don't have data, it is what it is, and if you're skeptical then don't part with your money.
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I'm trying to understand where the people optimistic about DLSS come from.

It's a thought, not the way I personally feel. Also trying to understand as much as possible as I'll either buy a 1080Ti or a 2080 next Friday.
 
I usually get an urge to upgrade my gpu when battlefield has a new game out. Now BF5 is supposed to have these features for the new rtx cards but unfortunately dice and EA made a right pigs ear of it..the game promoter must have been in the same dorm at uni as the Nvidia guy
Anyway the urge to spend £1000+ on a gpu with ifs and buts has subsided now i am in the why bother camp !
 
RavenXXX2 said:
10 years in the making and zero games with rtx to run on your £1100+ 2080ti. That's some funny ****. I would not be investing in Turing for ray tracing.
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I know this debate has been done to death but I really don't see the point in the 2080 right now or atleast buying one right now - sure down the line they might handle newer shader and game related compute stuff better than the 1080ti but I'd buy one then at a hopefully cheaper price when it came to it and they just don't have enough punch to utilise for any real RTX functionality. The 2080ti atleast you can't get the performance any other way and they maybe have enough punch for first gen RTX features when it comes to it.

martian1 said:
but unfortunately dice and EA made a right pigs ear of it..
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Have you played a Battlefield game before :p that is par for the course. I dread the day they actually hire some programmers that put in as much passion and care with their programming as the graphic design (artists, etc.) guys do on those games as I might actually have to buy an EA game again :s
 
17 years ago people where asking why where ATI and Nvidia wasting die space on pixel and vertex shader pipes to only get slightly more shinny water. Imo peeps to to lay off the conspiracy cool aid abit.
 
I think it does RTX a disservice to talk about DLSS and Ray Tracing in the same sentence. They couldn't be more different to each other in what they're bringing to the table, although I believe will end up working synergistically together given the high demand of ray tracing. DLSS is intended to improve visual performance AND frame rates... it's somewhat unprecedented in what it's attempting to achieve, and could be a real game changer. I think all the pricing controversy and lack of games to show it off has understandably overshadowed this somewhat, and while we don't have any games utilising it yet, the potential is significant. To write off a 2080 in favour of a 1080Ti based purely on this is rather short sighted... especially if someone is going out and buying a BRAND NEW 1080Ti in favour of a 2080. Keeping one or buying second hand is another story however.

The number of DLSS games on the roster isn't too shabby... https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/nvidia-geforce-gtx-gpu-dlss-games,news-59156.html

If it really does work well, and it boosts game sales AND the 20xx as well, game devs will be eager to get on board with it. This is the key at the end of the day. We will be waiting a few months for all this to settle though.
 
Legend said:
I think it does RTX a disservice to talk about DLSS and Ray Tracing in the same sentence. They couldn't be more different to each other in what they're bringing to the table, although I believe will end up working synergistically together given the high demand of ray tracing. DLSS is intended to improve visual performance AND frame rates... it's somewhat unprecedented in what it's attempting to achieve, and could be a real game changer. I think all the pricing controversy and lack of games to show it off has understandably overshadowed this somewhat, and while we don't have any games utilising it yet, the potential is significant. To write off a 2080 in favour of a 1080Ti based purely on this is rather short sighted... especially if someone is going out and buying a BRAND NEW 1080Ti in favour of a 2080. Keeping one or buying second hand is another story however.

The number of DLSS games on the roster isn't too shabby... https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/nvidia-geforce-gtx-gpu-dlss-games,news-59156.html

If it really does work well, and it boosts game sales AND the 20xx as well, game devs will be eager to get on board with it. This is the key at the end of the day. We will be waiting a few months for all this to settle though.
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From what I can make out the same tech underpinning DLSS will be used to increase the quality of what is possible with the feasible game performance ray tracing - using image AI to fill in some of the otherwise far more computational heavy blanks as part of a hybrid RT function and prevent speckling, etc. of light/shadow.

It will be interesting if nVidia find a way to slap DLSS into games as much as their FXAA system works though - that could be a real game changer in terms of overall performance delta.
 
razorpakk said:
How would you sell RTX cards? You would probably make sure there is at least a high profile game which supports Ray-Tracing and another one supporting DLSS from day one.

But then something happens and you realize software won't be ready. You manage to get FFXV's demo readily available to showcase DLSS and a few other things (I guess the infiltrator demo is available).

You couldn't even produce a tiny interactive demo to showcase Ray-Tracing capabilities, letting us play with lights and shadows. Why? The performance isn't good enough?

What would be next to sell those cards? Let's find out when we can actually provide DLSS and Ray-Tracing support, let's give our customers a solid date.

But where are the dates? I guess they're still unsure. Yes, it's up to the developers, but Nvidia must have their own people working with them on a few high-profile games. But they still can't provide us with dates.

Why did I write this? I might buy a 2080 soon, but I think we should all be much more skeptical about DLSS, just the same way we already are about Ray-Tracing. If we don't have a single date it means DLSS patches might be far away. And the fact Nvidia is completely silent is even worst.
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Relax is not conspiracy. However there is president case for Nvidia only technologies takes years to implement and the game list is small.

How many games have you played supporting PhysX the last 13 years the technology exists? Here is the list (you need to count GPU or PPU ones).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_hardware-accelerated_PhysX_support

I have played only one fully (Fallout 4), and for couple of hours the first Batman with 3d glasses on Nvision 3d. (which was great set playing CIV 5 and Bad Company 2)

How many good gameworks game exist over all those years, 5? One is Fallout 4 the other is The Division of that list, of those I have played.
Personally I see no difference on the latter with the GTX1080ti over the Vega 64 playing atm. (haven't used F4 with the Vega as I play it now on PS4P)

Until consoles and AMD support ray tracing, the list will be pretty limited. And if AMD supports RT it will be under GPUOpen not using anything Nvidia propitiatory.
However if it is under GPUOpen the Pascal cards will support it also. As currently all Maxwel & Pascal cards support RadeonRays for ray tracing.
 
If it's anything like PhysX or 3D vision, you'll see a handful of games after launch. Half of them will have a buggy/crashy implementation of it and you'll have to disable it anyway. Then it will just die.

It will only take off once open platforms appear and are supported across all cards.
 
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I think RTX is destined to fail due to what Panos says, most console manufacturers are using AMD GPU's so unless it is compatible with GPUOpen only a few games will support it.
 
Ezyryder said:
I think RTX is destined to fail
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I can't see why DLSS at least won't have a widespread appeal to developers when apparently NVIDIA will analyse a game through their supercomputer for free so it can happen in the game.
I can understand why NVIDIA wouldn't want to give firm figures for RTX in games when the implementation of RTX in any game is not yet finished.
 
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Safetytrousers said:
I can't see why DLSS at least won't have a widespread appeal to developers when apparently NVIDIA will analyse a game through their supercomputer for free so it can happen in the game.
I can understand why NVIDIA wouldn't want to give firm figures for RTX in games when the implementation of RTX in any game is not yet finished.
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It won't because the developer has to trust Nvidia with their source code.
 
Nasher said:
If it's anything like PhysX or 3D vision, you'll see a handful of games after launch. Half of them will have a buggy/crashy implementation of it and you'll have to disable it anyway. Then it will just die.

It will only take off once open platforms appear and are supported across all cards.
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DLSS is nothing like PhysX or 3D Vision, not remotely comparable. Heck, you've just used two entirely disparate technologies in and of itself, and then thrown in a third! It's like saying if a pear is anything like an apple or an orange it will taste horrible!
 
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