Woman injured as feminists and transgender groups fight at Speakers’ Corner

[dowie]

So it seems like the Alt-Left/identity politics loonies have taken the 'punch a nazi' thing even further - not only is violence against others on the right who they don't like seemingly acceptable (often previously under some weak guise that Student Republicans in say Berkley are 'Nazis' etc..) but now they've taken it further and decided that punching people who've views they simply don't like is cool - in this case other left wing people! Feminists who, while accepting that some men would like to identify as women, do object to people who were born as men being accepted as being the same as actual women.

While I'm personally ok with trans people from a social perspective, if someone wants to identify as a man/woman/non-binary/whatever then that is cool I can sort of see the arguments re: women's shelters etc.. (personally I think there is an obvious issue in sports too)

anyway this is a youtube video of the incident + Facebook post from the victim and below a metro article.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/17/woman...nder-groups-fight-at-speakers-corner-6933812/

A 60-year-old woman was pushed to the floor and punched in the face during a row between feminists and trans activists at Speakers’ Corner.

Police are investigating the incident which saw two groups, the Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists (TERFs) and Trans Activists, fighting in Hyde Park on Wednesday.

TERFS believe that trans women aren’t real women and should not be given the same rights.

Maria MacLachlan, a ‘gender critical feminist’, was attacked at Speakers’ Corner in London’s Hyde Park at about 7pm on Wednesday.

 

[dowie]

Came in here thinking it was going to be some parody thread to do with SC sub forum

 

[dowie]

Someone threw a punch for no reason I could discern, and immediately got dragged away by others.
If you are standing among a group of people with an axe to grind filming them without their permission, you should not be surprised to attract some ire.

Person turns up with the express intention of causing a scene, gets hit. I'll fetch my violin.

You've basically got it the wrong way around - the feminist group were organising a meeting, their first venue had to cancel the meeting because of threats from the trans group, the feminist group then decided to meet in the park and make their way to a secret venue in small groups for their meeting, the trans group showed up looking to cause trouble.

The feminist group is perfectly entitled to film in public, especially when they've been pursued/tracked down by a group of people who have threatened violence against them and are there to disrupt their meeting.

IT is therefore pretty dubious to excuse a young male (who identifies as female) hitting a 60 year old woman as somehow not worthy of condemnation simply because she was filming or her presence was intending to cause a scene - they wanted to have a meeting, and would have had one in their original venue if these trans activists hadn't made threats.

 

[dowie]

"Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists (TERFs) and Trans Activists, fighting in Hyde Park on Wednesday"
Excuse me?

basically it's a 'TERF' war...... I'll get my coat

 

[dowie]

Dowie you seem to spend a lot of time on the topic of left / right / trans / political / etc, you studying it or something?

As for this incident, I simply don't care. Things get heated at speaker's corner, this has been known forever. Going there to speak is doing so in the knowledge that it could go wrong.

nope, just think the identity politics thing that has emerged again recently is bizarre, I don't care if someone is left or right or whatever

they were there to meet up before heading off to a secret meeting venue after their original venue received threats from the trans group

One person threw a punch, ergo all the left are dangerous savages.

except no one has said that, in particular it is the regressive/alt left types being criticised here the victim is also 'left'... still nice straw man

 

[dowie]

In which case, if you are posting about people hitting other people they essentially agree with over some minor perceived slight, I look forward to your threads about every high street pub in the land on every Friday, or alternatively you have an agenda?

Hmmm which seems more plausible/likely to happen?

You're not really making much sense(unsurprisingly), this has nothing to do with Friday night drunken violence. You're welcome to go make your own thread about that, it is nothing new - this one concerns the re-emergence of identity politics, political violence and the use of no platforming tactics against a group that aren't Nazis but simply have a different opinion.

Not really interested if you want to carry on with spurious comparisons as from previous experience you're a time waster.

 

[dowie]

well you've got a rather dodgy memory and seem to interpret things as you like, but as I said I'm not interested - you've been a time waster in the past, I don't really want to engage with you further on this thread, if you're not interested in a thread about someone getting hit then don't post it it.. ditto to stuff like the Clarkson thread about someone getting hit - it is a bit more than that

 

[dowie]

also can you really claim to be a civil rights group when you have "exclusionary" right there in your name?

that isn't their name, that is what others have labeled them

 

[dowie]

also is anyone buying she was a "beautiful" girl?

not sure you can tell for sure what they used to be like in that regard once they are in their 60s to be fair, maybe she was speaking metaphorically like in a 'beautiful on the inside' kinda way...

 

[dowie]

because when you start identifying everyone by group or gender and us vs them you have to have people to exclude and vilify.

you cannot have such an organisation without an enemy

AFAIK they're not attempting to vilify trans people they just don't accept them as 'women' ergo they want to exclude them from their meetings in the same way they exclude men. Likewise there are arguments for excluding them from women's shelters or from say rape support groups aimed at women where the presence of a 'man' (in their eyes) whether that is a regular male or a trans woman/'man' isn't helpful to the rest of the people present.

 

[dowie]

Do you mean transgendered men or transgendered women? Switching hormones mean you either gain or lose a lot of muscle strength very quickly.

yet you can maintain other advantages - your bone structure for one

 

[dowie]

Personal experience?
Seriously some women are stronger than some men, this discussion and the points made are going no where!

in the context of professional athletes you're talking about the tail end of the distribution

 

[dowie]

There is some overlap in all metrics afaik!

yes but we're talking about athletes and the tail end of the distribution not the population as a whole... once you're going to the extremes there is often quite a gulf in plenty of areas between men and women

 

[dowie]

Sorry I missed the switch to athletes specifically. My understanding is even in adult populations there is an overlap, for those swapping gender (in either direction) Ill wager the overlap is greater than typical/average population but the topic isn't simple or clear cut, to my knowledge!

there wasn't a switch, the issue raised/mentioned was athletes from the start - see post #43

point is that while world class professional female athlete can no doubt beat 99.9% of men in her field she might also be dominated by say a good amateur male who competes at the local club level

 

[dowie]

It's great to see you are at leat open to widening this discussion to transgender athletes (a pretty small demographic) if not people taking a punch (a pretty large demographic)!

Still no agender (see what I did there)

someone highlighted an area where he'd (legitimately IMO) not treat trans women in the same way as women, you then didn't follow the conversation and a few unnecessary posts were required...

what agenda exactly?

 

[dowie]

Not really an answer to the quoted post but hay ho!
On transgender athletes (which is a tiny number) it would really depend on the individual and the sport what advantage either gender would have, surely?

yes, though rather swayed one way in the case of most sports

what agenda exactly were you referring to

 

[dowie]

Well you are clearly more willing to discuss transgender as an issue than punchups in general

yes, given the context of the thread it is at least a bit more relevant i.e. the subject of the confontation... still going a bit off topic

 

[dowie]

Actually the police report states the punch was a act of self defence as the 60 year old had someone in a head lock.

So women trying to beat up men got beaten up by women with penises..

Interesting do you have a link to the police report? It seemed from the video the person in the headlock was an earlier attacker.

 

[dowie]

Why is there a thread about this? Someone throws a punch at someone countless times every day/night the world over because of differing views.

Will the OP be bringing all these to our attention as well? I hope so because they would be just as uninteresting.

yet the thread is at 5 pages now and even you felt the need to reply if only to winge

 

[dowie]

I just find it amusing that you make your agenda so obvious, whilst trying to insinuate that you have no agenda

This forums knows your views on the "Alt-Left/identity politics loonies" by now. We get it.

I was just pointing out that this person being punched is meaningless and doesn't highlight anything, other than that generally people can be a bit ****.

where did I say I had no agenda... the agenda was clearly to discuss the alt left/identity politics types and this example of people from that pov going beyond 'punch a nazi' (which they often justify by stating that fascism is violent) to trying the same tactics now simply on a group that isn't violent but simply whose views they don't like I'm not really sure what relevance drunken brawls have to the thread other than a lame attempt at deflection/derailing