Woolwich serious incident

[Skunkworks]

Skin tone? That could be indicative of any number of nationality's or none...it could be an inherited trait and not indigenous to the persons nationality at all.

Features?, similarly the case.

Correct.

Clothing?....was the chap dressed in Somalian national dress?

Unknown at this time.

Mannerisms, Statements?...He was seen simply walking into a mosque by a passer-by.

All correct, but the point is it wasn't just his face in a vacuum that the witness saw, there may have been other clues, we just don't know yet. It's quite an assumption to say that it's impossible to say that someobody is [insert nationality here] in appearance.

 

[kwerk]

Africans all look the same to castiel.

 

[dowie]

So a Somalian dressed in clothes in keeping with the fashion of the place they lived (in this case London) would look distinctly different from an African American or a Jamaican or a Nigerian or any number of nationalities who possess similar ethnic characteristics.....

lol!!!

eh?

Aside from having dark skin West African people (so those Nigerians you mention and those who's ancestors were forcibly transported across the atlantic) don't share all that many similar ethnic characteristics with people from Somalia.

Suggest you click the below two links and play spot the difference if you're unaware of this - are you honestly telling me that you can't seem similarities shared between each of these groups - if you were to pick 5 from each group you wouldn't be able to roughly sort them into two groups?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=n...g&biw=1105&bih=538&sei=bMq9UbjfI6mm0AXP_4HYCw

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=s...I&biw=1105&bih=538&sei=Eau9UfScNoHO0QWIjoGoCg

In other news.. people of West African origin have more fast twitch muscle fibers (Why do African Americans and Jamaicans win the 100m, 200m) - East African people make good distance runners...

At a guess the area probably has a large Somali population in addition to perhaps a Caribbean one... saying someone 'looked Somali' is hardly that far fetched.

 

[deuse]

"Ch Supt Alex Murray said the man they arrested was of Somalian descent and that a "sizeable knife" had been used in the attack"

Maybe he was just a drunk or taking drugs?

 

[Xordium]

So he was of Somalian descent - good spot that citizen!

As for further down the release:

Ansar Ali Khan, the city councillor for Washwood Heath, said people will have been attending the mosque for local prayers.

"We've never had a problem, we always have a very peaceful situation in this area," he said.

Hmm, the crime statistics say otherwise.

 

[Castiel]

Yes, you could.

Really?....after reading up on this it appears that Somalians are actually quite unique in their genetic makeup so a distinction could be made...however telling the difference between Greg Rusedski and Tim Henman by specifying their nationality? Nope.

And Somalian descent....does that mean they are Somalian?

Is Rusedski Canadian, or English or Polish or Ukrainian..or all of them by nationality? Does the birthplace of your descendants determine your nationality?

 

[doodah]

Africans all look the same to castiel.

Indeed - there is a huge difference between them.

 

[Castiel]

eh?

Aside from having dark skin West African people (so those Nigerians you mention and those who's ancestors were forcibly transported across the atlantic) don't share all that many similar ethnic characteristics with people from Somalia.

Suggest you click the below two links and play spot the difference if you're unaware of this - are you honestly telling me that you can't seem similarities shared between each of these groups - if you were to pick 5 from each group you wouldn't be able to roughly sort them into two groups?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=n...g&biw=1105&bih=538&sei=bMq9UbjfI6mm0AXP_4HYCw

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=s...I&biw=1105&bih=538&sei=Eau9UfScNoHO0QWIjoGoCg

In other news.. people of West African origin have more fast twitch muscle fibers (Why do African Americans and Jamaicans win the 100m, 200m) - East African people make good distance runners...

At a guess the area probably has a large Somali population in addition to perhaps a Caribbean one... saying someone 'looked Somali' is hardly that far fetched.

Err...more than a few of those two groups could have been members of the other group by appearance.

There is a difference between determining the regional ethnicity of a person...see Northern European or Southern European descent and determining someone nationality specifically.

 

[Castiel]

Africans all look the same to castiel.

Speak for yourself.....no one said anything of the sort.....I still cannot see that you can specify the nationality of someone on appearance alone, there ethnicity is not their nationality. If there is a large Somalian community in the region then fair enough....but that doesn't mean you could tell a Somalian from an Ethiopian from a Kenyan simply looking at them, all other things such as dress etc being equal...

Being of Somalian descent doesn't make a person Somalian....

 

[PooBrain]

Speak for yourself.....no one said anything of the sort.....I still cannot see that you can specify the nationality of someone on appearance alone, there ethnicity is not their nationality.

Being of Somalian descent doesn't make a person Somalian....

It does and it doesn't.

 

[dowie]

Err...more than a few of those two groups could have been members of the other group by appearance.

There is a difference between determining the regional ethnicity of a person...see Northern European or Southern European descent and determining someone nationality specifically.

Yes there is.... see the last bit of my post. It really doesn't take too much deduction in that context to be able to state that someone looked Somali.

Imagine a hypothetical situation in some imaginary non-white country where the minority white population is made up of Portuguese and British people... after the knife attack in the local church a witness claims the pale skinned-ginger attacker 'looked British'...

There is a Somali population in that area... there are other black people there who's ancestors came from the Caribbean... they do look different.

 

[Castiel]

Yes there is.... see the last bit of my post. It really doesn't take too much deduction in that context to be able to state that someone looked Somali.

Imagine a hypothetical situation in some imaginary non-white country where the minority white population is made up of Portuguese and British people... after the knife attack in the local church a witness claims the pale skinned-ginger attacker 'looked British'...

There is a Somali population in that area... there are other black people there who's ancestors came from the Caribbean... they do look different.

And if there are Ethiopians, Kenyans, Eritreans? Are they Somali as well because they share the same regional ethnicity? I did read your post, and it doesn't mean you can tell someone's nationality simply by looking at them...you need to make assumptions based on other factors.

That is the point I am making, they made an assumption they were Somalian based on the community, not on their actual nationality....

 

[eatcustard]

I have no idea...but I would like to know how someone would know what nationality a person is, simply by looking at them.

You are just digging a hole for your self, there is a difference, just accept it and move on

 

[Xordium]

Really?....after reading up on this it appears that Somalians are actually quite unique in their genetic makeup so a distinction could be made...however telling the difference between Greg Rusedski and Tim Henman by specifying their nationality? Nope.

And Somalian descent....does that mean they are Somalian?

Is Rusedski Canadian, or English or Polish or Ukrainian..or all of them by nationality? Does the birthplace of your descendants determine your nationality?

That's obfuscating the original point you made where you questioned how you can tell someones racial lineage from visual appearances. It now appears after reading up you can see that there is a strong case for it with the caveats being as I mentioned in my initial post addressing this.

People of all racial and demographic groups have distinctive physical characteristics - from the obvious epicanthal folds of the East through to the less obvious.

Somalians aren't really unique in their genetic makeup - every one is.

It appears that person's assumption was correct.

 

[Castiel]

That's obfuscating the original point you made where you questioned how you can tell someones racial lineage from visual appearances. It now appears after reading up you can see that there is a strong case for it with the caveats being as I mentioned in my initial post addressing this.

People of all racial and demographic groups have distinctive physical characteristics - from the obvious epicanthal folds of the East through to the less obvious.

Somalians aren't really unique in their genetic makeup - every one is.

It appears that person's assumption was correct.

I read that Somalians belong to a very specific haplogroup not found outside of them, and as it is recessive it is not found in Somalis who have children by other groups. How true it is I don't know....but there is a difference between ethnic and national specificity....someone who looks Somalian, could just as well be Ethiopian or Kenyan, or British, or French.....by nationality, if not ethnicity.

 

[dowie]

And if there are Ethiopians, Kenyans, Eritreans? Are they Somali as well because they share the same regional ethnicity?

That is the point I am making, they made an assumption they were Somalian based on the community, not on their actual nationality....

That isn't the point you were making at all - until a few posts ago you were posting as though all black populations looked similar. You previously asked if you could tell the difference between Somalians and Nigerians, Jamaicans and African Americans... - yes you can differentiate Somalians from those other groups.

Your original post was questioning how the witness could claim that the attacker looked Somali - I would hope, by now, it is fairly obvious.

Yes you might well throw in the caveat that the attacker looked Somali (or possibly Ethiopian or Eritrean) but if there is a big Somali population there then it is quite reasonable to simply say he 'looked Somali'... and yes its a reference to his ethnicity and not whatever passport he might have in his drawer at home.

 

[Castiel]

You are just digging a hole for your self, there is a difference, just accept it and move on

So there is a visible difference between a Somali and an Ethiopian, given the assumption that all other things such as dress, education, social factors are equal?

Could you tell the difference by looking at them?

 

[Xordium]

I read that Somalians belong to a very specific haplogroup not found outside of them, and as it is recessive it is not found in Somalis who have children by other groups. How true it is I don't know....

It's useful in the way you can determine origin and lineage but you can do that with most racial groups in fairness.

 

[Castiel]

That isn't the point you were making at all - until a few posts ago you were posting as though all black populations looked similar. You previously asked if you could tell the difference between Somalians and Nigerians, Jamaicans and African Americans... - yes you can differentiate Somalians from those other groups.

Your original post was questioning how the witness could claim that the attacker looked Somali - I would hope, by now, it is fairly obvious.

Yes you might well throw in the caveat that the attacker looked Somali (or possibly Ethiopian or Eritrean) but if there is a big Somali population there then it is quite reasonable to simply say he 'looked Somali'... and yes its a reference to his ethnicity and not whatever passport he might have in his drawer at home.

No I wasn't....I was asking how someone could tell the nationality of someone simply by appearance....being African American doesn't mean you are not of Somali descent for example, it doesn't make you a Somali national however...you would be American. Mo Farah's nationality is British, his father was born in Britain, yet he would be a Somalian national by the logic you are using. Just because someone looks like they come from somewhere, doesn't mean they do. Simply looking is not enough. The more general regional ethnicity I can accept, the differences between North, East, West and South Africans for example....but being as specific as Nationalities...no I don't agree...that require more information and assumptions based on that.

It's like saying anyone with a natural tan and dark hair wearing a tailored suit is Italian...

 

[dowie]

No I wasn't....I was asking how someone could tell the nationality of someone simply by appearance....being African American doesn't mean you are not of Somali descent for example, it doesn't make you a Somali national however...you would be American.

It's like saying anyone with a natural tan and dark hair wearing a tailored suit is Italian...

Context for one thing.

You actually asked the below question:

I like the way people said he looked Somalian.....what does a Somalian look like that they are so distinct from anyone else?

Hopefully you now understand how someone can deduce that... Area with Somali population, Somalis looking different from the rest of the 'Black' population in that area...

Also they were of course shown to be correct too...