Woolwich serious incident

Xordium · 23 May 2013 at 15:36

lemonade said:
This just shows how little you know. You call for the muslims to do something (which they do), yet you dismiss the main causes of why this is happening, as long as you ignore the core causes nothing will change and hasn't changed as a result.

I suggest you bother to read everything I've written rather than take a soundbite on one post because you'll see I've already acknowledged that and your failure to spot it just makes you look lazy and stupid.

ilcp · 23 May 2013 at 15:37

Yas786 said:
Yep of course it is, i mean when i divorced my ex wife 12 yrs ago...i threw some acid in her face just for good measure.

Yep because throwing acid in a muslims face is definitely a tradition that all muslims should abide by.

even if muslims did that, they may have a reason, would about the recent report of someone knocking on someones door and throwing acid at the poor woman? what was his excuse.. or are we here indulging in a bit of peoples favourite past time of "bashing muslims"

And if you took my comments seriously then words cannot describe just how sad an individual you are.[/QUOTE]

Gilly · 23 May 2013 at 15:38

ilcp said:
I agree, we all accept this is a BRITISH country not a Muslim one, so why would we impose something on you?

Can we please stop spouting words as "moderate/extreme" muslims.. This implies that our religion advocates killing and one who does this is "extreme", we are moderate because we do not choose to follow that ruling... This is a word coined by the USA and everyone is using it wrongly!

Example: If i prayed 5 times a day, would that be "extreme" or would that be me following my religion?

That would be you following your religion.

If you were killing/inciting hatred/burning British flags/picketing soldiers funerals then that would be being extremist. As you are a follower of Islam that would be an extremist Muslim.

That doesn't mean Muslims are extremist. Just that you would be extremist and a Muslim.

That's how I've always read it anyway.

scorza · 23 May 2013 at 15:39

Greebo said:
I didn't actually. The fact that it appears we had been negotiating to hand the Falkland Islands over to them and for some bizarre reason rather than waiting, they invaded instead suited our Government. It meant we could have a war and they would win the next election (which they did).

Politics caused that conflict and that unnecceassy death.

Well at least that wasn't a problem during the crusades - most people in the Middle East in those days were quite happy to be part of the Byzantine Empire and later a citizen of a crusader state.

ilcp · 23 May 2013 at 15:40

Yas786 said:
Well its hard to ask every single muslim that question, without doing a long survey. I have no doubt that there are plenty of muslims who do want an islamic state here in the UK but thankfully most of my muslim friends are of the opinion that they do not want to see an islamic state here in the UK.

it is not a matter of "wanting". OF course i would want an islamic state here, but it is just a wish, i wouldnt IMPOSE It on British people because I am the "foreigner" here and i have to abide by their laws, not the other way around.

RDM · 23 May 2013 at 15:40

ilcp said:
even if muslims did that, they may have a reason,

I am struggling here, you seem to be suggesting that there is a legitimate reason for throwing acid in someone's face, which surely you can't be?

ilcp · 23 May 2013 at 15:44

RDM said:
I am struggling here, you seem to be suggesting that there is a legitimate reason for throwing acid in someone's face, which surely you can't be?

No, I am not saying it is right for any one to kill another human being for whatever reason..

What I meant to say was that recent attack on the woman was a non provoked attack without any reason, and in that case of divorce, at least there was a reason involved.. (I was just emphasising the fact that we wouldnt be doing anything without a reason!)

RDM · 23 May 2013 at 15:50

ilcp said:
No, I am not saying it is right for any one to kill another human being for whatever reason..

What I meant to say was that recent attack on the woman was a non provoked attack without any reason, and in that case of divorce, at least there was a reason involved.. (I was just emphasising the fact that we wouldnt be doing anything without a reason!)

Does it matter if there is a reason? Especially if that reason is something like divorce? I would suggest that throwing acid in someone's face is a pretty appalling thing to do for no reason, even more appalling if it was your wife who wanted a divorce.

Emphasising that Muslims need a reason to throw acid into someone's face isn't really doing you any good at all.

ilcp · 23 May 2013 at 16:05

RDM said:
Does it matter if there is a reason? Especially if that reason is something like divorce? I would suggest that throwing acid in someone's face is a pretty appalling thing to do for no reason, even more appalling if it was your wife who wanted a divorce.

Emphasising that Muslims need a reason to throw acid into someone's face isn't really doing you any good at all.

I cant explain what I am trying to say or it is not coming out correctly but I have emphasised that killing/throwing acid or hitting (etc etc) is not allowed under any circumstances for whatever reasons.

TheVoice · 23 May 2013 at 16:05

Seems we need a new topic for discussing the actual incident. :rolleyes:

ilcp · 23 May 2013 at 16:07

Gilly said:
That would be you following your religion.

If you were killing/inciting hatred/burning British flags/picketing soldiers funerals then that would be being extremist. As you are a follower of Islam that would be an extremist Muslim.

That doesn't mean Muslims are extremist. Just that you would be extremist and a Muslim.

That's how I've always read it anyway.

OK I guess it was a misconception on my part and hope everyone ( which I highly doubt) has the same understanding.

Yas786 · 23 May 2013 at 16:10

ilcp said:
even if muslims did that, they may have a reason, would about the recent report of someone knocking on someones door and throwing acid at the poor woman? what was his excuse.. or are we here indulging in a bit of peoples favourite past time of "bashing muslims"

And if you took my comments seriously then words cannot describe just how sad an individual you are.

[/QUOTE]

Say what?? :confused:

What reason on gods green earth could you have for throwing acid in someones face?? :confused:

. Even if they had a reason, it still doesnt make it right does it??. Are you advocating the use of acid being theown on someones face?? because as a muslim i sure as hell dont and never will. Such barbarism has no place in any religion whether it be islam or another religion....its sick and disgusting.

The Running Man · 23 May 2013 at 16:11

ilcp said:
it is not a matter of "wanting". OF course i would want an islamic state here, but it is just a wish, i wouldnt IMPOSE It on British people because I am the "foreigner" here and i have to abide by their laws, not the other way around.

If you wanted to live in an Islamic state, please explain why you or your family chose to come here?

I think that is my issue really. Many Muslims live here and just about abide by our laws even though they try to circumvent them and instead go to Sharia. But the undercurrent is that they would love the country to become islamafied to become an Islamic state.

Even though they must be able to see that virtually every other Islamic state is in a state of ruin. Or has outdated barbaric laws and constitution.

This gravitating towards Islam is a part of their lives and ultimately if they produce such numbers of followers that the non Muslims become a minority they can slowly erode our values and instill their own.

Religion takes precedence in these peoples lives. They live to worship Allah. To them this is a natural progression.

Gilly · 23 May 2013 at 16:13

TheVoice said:
Seems we need a new topic for discussing the actual incident.

Discuss away.

As there's been nothing new released (that I've seen) conversation has drifted somewhat.

HummuH1 · 23 May 2013 at 16:16

RDM said:
I am struggling here, you seem to be suggesting that there is a legitimate reason for throwing acid in someone's face, which surely you can't be?

ilcp said:
No, I am not saying it is right for any one to kill another human being for whatever reason..

What I meant to say was that recent attack on the woman was a non provoked attack without any reason, and in that case of divorce, at least there was a reason involved.. (I was just emphasising the fact that we wouldnt be doing anything without a reason!)

I'm not sure I'm grasping what you're saying here. Do you think a wife wanting divorce is reasonable grounds to throw acid in her face??

Greebo · 23 May 2013 at 16:19

RDM said:
There is no real evidence to support this, pretty much all previous negotiations failed due to the Islanders not wanting to be Argentinian (and still not wanting to be Argentinian). Self determination can be such a pain at times.

There is. The only thing which stopped them doing it was the lobbying of the Islanders wanting to remain British like you said. Apart from that we were happy to hand them over. 4 years before the Falklands war, Argentina invaded one of the other uninhabited islands and set up a base and we did nothign to stops them or try to kick them out.

By rights since the Islands were first French and then later Spanish before Argentina gained indepence from Spain, the islands have been British for far less time than either French or Spanish.

robgmun · 23 May 2013 at 16:21

ilcp said:
OK I guess it was a misconception on my part and hope everyone ( which I highly doubt) has the same understanding.

I do.

HEADRAT · 23 May 2013 at 16:25

Horrible men have always done horrible things in the name of religion, "GOD WILLS IT"!

XeNoN89 · 23 May 2013 at 16:29

ilcp said:
I

Can we please stop spouting words as "moderate/extreme" muslims.. This implies that our religion advocates killing and one who does this is "extreme", we are moderate because we do not choose to follow that ruling... This is a word coined by the USA and everyone is using it wrongly!

Example: If i prayed 5 times a day, would that be "extreme" or would that be me following my religion?

I don't think it's so bad. I work with a guy who prays 5 times a day, only eats halal etc and I class him as quite a 'strict' Muslim, not extreme. Extremists are the ones who interpret Islam in an extreme way.

ilcp · 23 May 2013 at 16:42

Say what?? :confused:

What reason on gods green earth could you have for throwing acid in someones face?? :confused:

. Even if they had a reason, it still doesnt make it right does it??. Are you advocating the use of acid being theown on someones face?? because as a muslim i sure as hell dont and never will. Such barbarism has no place in any religion whether it be islam or another religion....its sick and disgusting.[/QUOTE]

why do people just concentrate on one part.. i have mentioned/clarified my stance, maybe I have not managed to explain myself properly with what i was trying to get out but I never said anyone has a right to do anything to you with/without a reason.

If you wanted to live in an Islamic state, please explain why you or your family chose to come here?

I think that is my issue really. Many Muslims live here and just about abide by our laws even though they try to circumvent them and instead go to Sharia. But the undercurrent is that they would love the country to become islamafied to become an Islamic state.

Even though they must be able to see that virtually every other Islamic state is in a state of ruin. Or has outdated barbaric laws and constitution.

This gravitating towards Islam is a part of their lives and ultimately if they produce such numbers of followers that the non Muslims become a minority they can slowly erode our values and instill their own.

Religion takes precedence in these peoples lives. They live to worship Allah. To them this is a natural progression.

What do you mean "just about"! Majority of Muslims do seem to abide by the laws.. It is not as if everyone else is abiding by it 100%!

How is wanting something a crime? If I actually went around advocating, forcing it on people, then yeah that would be me.. But then I also would love a world where people can go everywhere and live happily..

Yes our religion takes precedence but as long as we are not hurting anyone else then what is the problem? Also most muslims just like most christians are slowly going further away from the religion. The only thing majority of the muslims do is: Fast, pray on friday, abstain from Haram products and alcohol. I dont see how any of this violates UK law or hurts your sentiments?