Work and career progression apathy.. Is it much more prevalent now?

[OspreyO]

I don't think it's even that.

Sure, I could do twice as much work as I do a day, but that would end up being twice as much as most other people would be doing, and better quality.

I wouldn't get paid twice as much though, and there isn't any opportunity to progress at the moment and I wouldn't want to anyway, so what's the point?

I value my free time.

I'm am honestly lucky, and I fully accept that, but it isn't just luck that allows me to do it, it's because I'm smart and I'm good at my job

Lol I'm not quite at the "office space" point.

But theres comes a point when you realise after a certain point no one's looking at the metrics. Those people driving themselves into the ground with stress are stuck in a hamster wheel. I was that soldier and burnt out, changed my attitude after that.

 

[D.P.]

I’d disagree. Leaders should be doing the leg work to get their team members promoted. Employee should just be getting a promotion or not.

Exception being roles where there is a competency element to it eg a test etc

i absolutely agree but my point still stands, if an employee can't be bothered to spend a week evidencing their abilities and successes then they likely don't deserve to be promoted beyond the lowest levels

 

[marinersfan]

I think the only people with careers in my job are the office gimps, who we never see. The majority of us, especially us older lot just deal with the nonsense on a shift to shift basis and then go home. After all - work to live not live to work.

 

[BUDFORCE]

i absolutely agree but my point still stands, if an employee can't be bothered to spend a week evidencing their abilities and successes then they likely don't deserve to be promoted beyond the lowest levels

What's filling in a form have anything to to with how suited they are for a job? Or even how they interview?

External applications fine, but internal you already know, or should know what type of employee they are and if they are right for the job, I can't see the relevance of how well a form is filled in Vs months or years of a proven track record.

Seems a complete waste of time to me, might put people off who are comfortable enough in thier job who might be the right person Vs those that want to progress, usually solely for the paycheck, at all costs and have no care for the fallout.

 

[SpellowHouse]

Thought about this thread for a while. And the OF thread encouraged me to create it.

It may well just be me, or an anecdotal thing. Where I'm friends with these people because they are like me. But in my peer group not many people are pushing for the next step.

I should add that most of my peer group earn good (above average) salaries but under 100. But no one seems to want the next level (me inc). More than one has even stepped back from middle manager roles.

I'm not sure if it's because many of us don't have kids (late 30s mainly) and that need to leave an inheritance isn't there. But I shush see it with my sisters who do have a kid each.
Or it's just that the next step (managing for many of us) isn't worth the hassle. I've never wanted any of my managers jobs. And that the tax burden is such that paying it into pension is only sensible thing. But that doesn't seem Rewarding.

From what I've seen next step includes (often) overtime (paid or not) and stress (from above and below that middle position) and being already in the 40pc bracket, even 10k pay rise is only a few hundred a month. Ie, it's not going to change your life.


I'd say it isn't anecdotal as a 4 day week is being talked about more and more. I know far more people that would take a 4 day week vs a pay rise. Even a 4 day week with a pay cut

With state pension age always on the up, and most peoples pensions not able to allow you to retire before this.. Its there really any reward in the 50-125k band (where many end up) in this case.. Assuming the hassle and work life balance starts to swing to work?


For myself I am definitely in the "I'm done now, I certainly don't want more stress for more money. I want time.

We have a lot of high flyers here on the forum, and obviously those in the mega salary (ie over 150k) that's different. If you have got there, yes. I totally see the benefits.

But in that 50-125k..for those that are there... Who do have the stress.. Its it worth it?

I think the outlook of people has changed. Once upon a time, the centre of the universe was the family. That was the focus of peoples ambition. To have a nice quiet life, own a home, have kids and so on. But I think these days the focus has changed more towards to financial success and ownership.

In my day, it was pretty much unheard of that women went out to work. Then at some stage it became a necessity, and sometimes a choice, and with that change the focus moved from the family and it all become about work and income. People have almost forgotten why they were doing this in the first place. I mean, times were much harder back then, but at the same time, life meant more than it does now.

Earning money seems almost addictive. The crazy thing is we have become so obsessed with earning that many people have lost sight of living.

 

[bakes0310]

I think the outlook of people has changed. Once upon a time, the centre of the universe was the family. That was the focus of peoples ambition. To have a nice quiet life, own a home, have kids and so on. But I think these days the focus has changed more towards to financial success and ownership.

In my day, it was pretty much unheard of that women went out to work. Then at some stage it became a necessity, and sometimes a choice, and with that change the focus moved from the family and it all become about work and income. People have almost forgotten why they were doing this in the first place. I mean, times were much harder back then, but at the same time, life meant more than it does now.

Earning money seems almost addictive. The crazy thing is we have become so obsessed with earning that many people have lost sight of living.

Good post.
I've never been money driven but now everything costs more I need more to live in my house and be able to do things. With that my job costs me more time with travel (4.5hr round trip) courses and also it being a 40hr work week.
I received a 19% pay increase in Jan, and a 6% pay increase yesterday, not going to lie that made me quite happy has it meant I could simply afford to live easier with my wife.
Unless things go cheaper again I don't know if work and money ain't going to be a big factor in people's lives.

 

[kkelly]

I think the outlook of people has changed. Once upon a time, the centre of the universe was the family. That was the focus of peoples ambition. To have a nice quiet life, own a home, have kids and so on. But I think these days the focus has changed more towards to financial success and ownership.

In my day, it was pretty much unheard of that women went out to work. Then at some stage it became a necessity, and sometimes a choice, and with that change the focus moved from the family and it all become about work and income. People have almost forgotten why they were doing this in the first place. I mean, times were much harder back then, but at the same time, life meant more than it does now.

Earning money seems almost addictive. The crazy thing is we have become so obsessed with earning that many people have lost sight of living.

I'd say the price of houses / nursery makes it nearly essential for women to work now. For our case and many of our friends the houses are 1/4 of a joint income and nursery is about the same and grandparents are usually still working now too.

 

[krooton]

I'd say the price of houses / nursery makes it nearly essential for women to work now. For our case and many of our friends the houses are 1/4 of a joint income and nursery is about the same and grandparents are usually still working now too.

Not only that, women also rightly have the choice of wanting to work, not every woman wants to be a SAHM.

 

[LuckyBenski]

Not only that, women also rightly have the choice of wanting to work, not every woman wants to be a SAHM.

I think this is where it gets a little complicated. Women can have a job, education, career, much more easily more - good thing. Conversely, where a good salary used to be able to support a wife and kids, home, entire family setup - that's often now not possible without two folk time earners.

For sure not having enough income is now a consideration amongst people my age when deciding on having kids. I have a colleague in China, he says that the government are more trying to encourage people to have more than one child, but most couples don't as it's too expensive.

 

[mid_gen]

I'd say the price of houses / nursery makes it nearly essential for women to work now. For our case and many of our friends the houses are 1/4 of a joint income and nursery is about the same and grandparents are usually still working now too.

Yes it's a change that has been forced on society by the diminishing quality of life offered by an average income, as a result of decades of economic dogma eating away at our institutions.

Looks like with water companies trying to put up prices by 40% after extracting 10's of billions in profits while filling our rivers with ****..... might.... finally..... be the straw that breaks the camel's back and people wake up to the disaster that is neoliberalism and putting the free market above all else.

 

[adam cool dude]

Not only that, women also rightly have the choice of wanting to work, not every woman wants to be a SAHM.

If I ever had the choice of going to work or being a stay at home dad I would 100% take the latter option!

I know my wife would say exactly the same!

 

[Ayahuasca]

Not only that, women also rightly have the choice of wanting to work, not every woman wants to be a SAHM.

Although studies show the majority would like more time out of work to raise their children.

I know women going back to work earlier than 9 months now as they simply can’t afford to stay on maternity.

Juggling a career/job and still looking after a baby under 2 years old should never have been a thing. It’s bad for everyone involved.

 

[BUDFORCE]

Juggling a career/job and still looking after a baby under 2 years old should never have been a thing. It’s bad for everyone involved.

Yup been there done that, twice, it's not fun, well it's mostly horrendously expensive and thank god the in laws are alive, nearby and willing to have helped otherwise I have no idea how we would have managed.

 

[SpellowHouse]

I think this is where it gets a little complicated. Women can have a job, education, career, much more easily more - good thing. Conversely, where a good salary used to be able to support a wife and kids, home, entire family setup - that's often now not possible without two folk time earners.

For sure not having enough income is now a consideration amongst people my age when deciding on having kids. I have a colleague in China, he says that the government are more trying to encourage people to have more than one child, but most couples don't as it's too expensive.

Yes it's nice to think that working was a choice for women, but at the time, I don't think most women saw it that way. Rather it was a necessity. These days it's become the norm and in the process we are losing the family. Maybe that's what people want, but it seems to me that people are much more stressed now than they used to be, despite the fact that we had fewer possessions back then.

 

[kitkat9933]

i absolutely agree but my point still stands, if an employee can't be bothered to spend a week evidencing their abilities and successes then they likely don't deserve to be promoted beyond the lowest levels

A week of effort to get a promotion lol!

Disagree 100%. Sure you might have to do that if you have incompetent management. But it should not be expected.

 

[LuckyBenski]

I know women going back to work earlier than 9 months now as they simply can’t afford to stay on maternity.

Juggling a career/job and still looking after a baby under 2 years old should never have been a thing. It’s bad for everyone involved.

I agree on principle - but also worth recognising that taking 1+ year out from a career role can hurt your progression in a big way. And this almost always affects women not men. So really we should make it more acceptable to take 1-5 years out to raise your kids to school age!

I have a friend who works for a big British financial institution and she's noted that since offering 9 months off to new fathers as well as mothers, they are handling that kind of leave much better i.e. you don't come back to no job.

 

[Narj]

Certainly outputs people who create bureaucracy and BS.

In my place, the manager puts forward the initial recommendation so does all the paperwork.

Then, if HR agree to proceed, the employee basically has to do a job interview, and dependent upon grade, has to do a presentation.

Seems like a decent process to me.

 

[EvilRob]

Are we talking about promotions in role (e.g. where you have become more experienced over time and should now be a "senior") or applying for more senior open positions? Big difference I think.

 

[malachi]

Perspective changes a lot once the mortgage is paid off.

Yep, I paid mine off last year. 12 years early, a few months before I turned 40 years old. But If I stayed in the same job, not moved countries or had kids. I still be paying it off now.

With people talking about pensions, if you were born after 1980 then retirement will be a privilege not a right. Most people are not prepared for that when the retire age keeps on rising. All the talk about early retirement while the economy eats in your savings or the goal post change. Seeing some Gen X hoping for early retirement then get sick, so much for all the money they stacked away for early retirement and cant enjoy it. Thats becoming more common now.

With the way things are now and how companies can bin you off whenever they want. I dont want to spend all my life working to make another person rich.

 

[throwaway4372]

Women working vs women needing to work is chicken vs egg.

If you double the supply of labour then naturally the price of labour goes down. No longer can a family survive on one person's salary. But it's worse than that for the family because of childcare costs on top.

If you're big business you're laughing because you have twice as many workers for roughly the same cost. Essentially the women are working for free, basically enslaved themselves in the name of feminism.