Work and career progression apathy.. Is it much more prevalent now?

[BDEE]

I had this decision a while back and went for number 1. Ironically I'm now on multiples of that figure and have 35+ days a year odd. But recently I've become very disillusioned, just bored of it. But golden handcuffs on fully now.

I got very lucky with an acquisition recently and have my eyes on something else. If goes to plan I think I might have an exit.

I'm just tired of an excessive lifestyle with complete ********. But im under no illusion ******** jobs have even more pressure for even less.

Edit: lifestyle creep is a very real reality. I insulated myself to a greater degree with my personality and by doing minimum. Eg I bought nice "showy" car which was a sensible purchase because of the label and a Tesla S because again people cannot tell if it was for savings or idealogy haha. Watching some of the insane purchases of people and sheer waste of money is incredible. Especially for idiots for who it's easy come easy go and yet did not build up portfolios first etc. If I lose my job tomorrow at least I have houses and investments. I know people that can spend v healthy 6figure salaries with **** all to show for it at the end.



Out of curiosity if you had your time again would it take you 15 years again to make VP, and if not why another 10 to make Director? (Assuming I didn't read you wrong). What area you in that progression takes that long?

And yes transformation is a huge problem, streamlining and a race to a bottom has the ladder continually being cut. The next 5-10 years are going to be significantly more difficult than ever before. A lot of people are going to feel a lot of pain and getting to higher grounds before the flood comes makes sense.

It depends. Starting now, you make VP by having [an often unrelated] degree and coming in on a 12 month fast-track, but ultimately fail through lack of real life experience. Working your way up I guess it is possible to do it much quicker for those ultra determined, but with automation and digitisation for most starting as a grunt out of school (like I did) it is very very difficult in this industry now. I had only ever planned my journey to the VP level. Had I planned director earlier then I could probably have done it within 5 years of the VP, but I only really started to think about it recently. Although I heard recently in the press that "peak earnings" average age is 47, so I am on track to still be there below average, if it happens.

Regardless, I've done OK for someone who has sucky A(s) levels from not applying myself and walking into a recruitment agency one day saying "I need a proper job, I'll do anything" and ending up working in a bank

 

[413x]

It's perhaps not worth progressing to get to the next rung in isolation, but several rungs later it's worth it. There's only so much stress you can feel and you learn to cope/switch off gradually.
I think there is a certain point in companies where you 'made it' and you start getting very well taken care of.

This really. I'm my current role I don't think there's much above the level above me.
And the level above is (I think) not a good work:remuneration balance.

So there's nothing really to aim for.

As someone else said, the path to 50-60 was quite rapid.

But after that you have the double whammy in my area of slowing pay increases and 40pc tax

Not a great motivator when you know you'll never beach 100k

 

[LuckyBenski]

I actually spent a few months trying to negotiate a pay or working hours review this year, having taken the role a year ago. At the time of the job offer I asked for considerably more cash, they added 1k to the salary. I requested a 4 day week and pointed out I was giving up WFH for full time on-prem work. No flex at all, just "We'll talk about it again in a few months". So 10 months later I raise the issue for discussion and am not only brick walled on all points, but refused a formal pay review and refused a flexible working review. They wouldn't even say "no" to a payrise on the record, just fobbed me off with zero discussion. So is it any wonder I'm not planning to ever work harder, earn more or take more responsibility from this company? 6 years with them and it's clear there's zero structured progression to be had.

This really. I'm my current role I don't think there's much above the level above me.
And the level above is (I think) not a good work:remuneration balance.

So there's nothing really to aim for.

I know there are some people earning good money in my company but they institutionally hide how the **** any of us are supposed to get there. They admitted at the time my salary band, which they couldn't exceed, was made up as they'd never hired the role before.

 

[EvilRob]

This really. I'm my current role I don't think there's much above the level above me.
And the level above is (I think) not a good work:remuneration balance.

Are you able to move sideways at all? Even if it's not a huge payrise, learning different parts of the business can be really helpful in the getting to the more senior roles later.
Also, sometimes as you become more senior and recognised, opportunities that you didn't expect just come along. If don't start moving up and making yourself more visible, that is less likely to happen.

 

[D.P.]

To apply for promotion or new job in our place requires to fill out a 4-5 page form that takes about a week. You can never reuse an old one because they change the layout all the time. So you could spend a week or more doing the form, and another week preparing. I think it's just putting people off.

shock horror at the fact that getting a promotion requires some work.

This sounds like the perfect filter to me.

 

[OspreyO]

shock horror at the fact that getting a promotion requires some work.

This sounds like the perfect filter to me.

Not entirely sure why making a form so poorly designed and formatted that it takes a week to fill out is good use of anyone's time. Can't even cut and paste from the previous one.

Justifying that seems to be the mindset of making things unnecessarily complicated and time consuming is better. It isn't.

 

[Richie]

Not entirely sure why making a form so poorly designed and formatted that it takes a week to fill out is good use of anyone's time. Can't even cut and paste from the previous one.

Justifying that seems to be the mindset of making things unnecessarily complicated and time consuming is better. It isn't.

@D.P. is saying that that it will filter out the people who are not driven enough as they cant be bothered with the "hassle" of filling out a form ergo, you get rid of people that aren't that interested at the earliest opportunity.

 

[OspreyO]

@D.P. is saying that that it will filter out the people who are not driven enough as they cant be bothered with the "hassle" of filling out a form ergo, you get rid of people that aren't that interested at the earliest opportunity.

I know what he meant.

What it actually does is filter out people who hate inefficiency and filter in people who don't care about efficiency and indeed aren't that busy so have time to spend doing this. This is just the form to apply. You then have a least one or two interviews, and a presentation or two depending how senior the role.

I realise now that's why we have so many managers who are so bad. The process encourages them, facilitates them. Many people have told me the process puts them off applying.

I've done a few external interviews recently for practice and they were a vastly more efficient. I guess at least our internal processes makes external ones a breeze.

 

[D.P.]

Not entirely sure why making a form so poorly designed and formatted that it takes a week to fill out is good use of anyone's time. Can't even cut and paste from the previous one.

Justifying that seems to be the mindset of making things unnecessarily complicated and time consuming is better. It isn't.

well, if it takes you a week to fill out 4-5 pages and that is too much effort, then i think this is an excellent filter. Maybe i will adopt that for my reportees

 

[D.P.]

I know what he meant.

What it actually does is filter out people who hate inefficiency and filter in people who don't care about efficiency and indeed aren't that busy so have time to spend doing this. This is just the form to apply. You then have a least one or two interviews, and a presentation or two depending how senior the role.

I realise now that's why we have so many managers who are so bad. The process encourages them, facilitates them. Many people have told me the process puts them off applying.

I've done a few external interviews recently for practice and they were a vastly more efficient. I guess at least our internal processes makes external ones a breeze.

Actually, if it takes someone 1 week to fill out 4-5 pages to get a promotion then i would say it is an excellent filter for people that are incredibly inefficient and think that is too much of a hurdle.

 

[Narj]

Actually, if it takes someone 1 week to fill out 4-5 pages to get a promotion then i would say it is an excellent filter for people that are incredibly inefficient and think that is too much of a hurdle.

Yeah, a good test of how you will deal with the bureaucracy and BS you'll potentially face in a more senior role.

 

[OspreyO]

well, if it takes you a week to fill out 4-5 pages and that is too much effort, then i think this is an excellent filter. Maybe i will adopt that for my reportees

Actually, if it takes someone 1 week to fill out 4-5 pages to get a promotion then i would say it is an excellent filter for people that are incredibly inefficient and think that is too much of a hurdle.

I said the form was 4 -5 pages. It's obviously a lot longer after it's filled in, and if it takes a week. I know how long it takes from the feedback from internal and external candidates.

 

[OspreyO]

Yeah, a good test of how you will deal with the bureaucracy and BS you'll potentially face in a more senior role.

Certainly outputs people who create bureaucracy and BS.

 

[BUDFORCE]

I know what he meant.

What it actually does is filter out people who hate inefficiency and filter in people who don't care about efficiency and indeed aren't that busy so have time to spend doing this. This is just the form to apply. You then have a least one or two interviews, and a presentation or two depending how senior the role.

I realise now that's why we have so many managers who are so bad. The process encourages them, facilitates them. Many people have told me the process puts them off applying.

I've done a few external interviews recently for practice and they were a vastly more efficient. I guess at least our internal processes makes external ones a breeze.

Nah I agree with you.

I see it on my job, people ok the same level working till 8pm, then I'm done most days by about half 11 in the morning.

Sure they may shift more volume, but leave a wake of destruction behind them.

Where as what I do is done well, everyone is happy with it and it doesn't cause anyone else any work.

I got a promotion last year and was asked to apply because I literally hadn't bothered applying previously, and given the promotion and a bit of a pay rise, they leave me alone still.

Being driven is one thing, but a lot of people who are driven are also ******* stupid.

 

[Narj]

Being driven is one thing, but a lot of people who are driven are also ******* stupid.

Makes me think of the Peter Principle.

What Is the Peter Principle?

The Peter Principle theorizes that people in a firm will be promoted to a point where they are no longer qualified, leaving a company with incompetent employees in leadership roles.

www.investopedia.com

 

[BUDFORCE]

Makes me think of the Peter Principle.

What Is the Peter Principle?

The Peter Principle theorizes that people in a firm will be promoted to a point where they are no longer qualified, leaving a company with incompetent employees in leadership roles.

www.investopedia.com

I don't think it's even that.

Sure, I could do twice as much work as I do a day, but that would end up being twice as much as most other people would be doing, and better quality.

I wouldn't get paid twice as much though, and there isn't any opportunity to progress at the moment and I wouldn't want to anyway, so what's the point?

I value my free time.

I'm am honestly lucky, and I fully accept that, but it isn't just luck that allows me to do it, it's because I'm smart and I'm good at my job

 

[Ayahuasca]

I don't think it's even that.

Sure, I could do twice as much work as I do a day, but that would end up being twice as much as most other people would be doing, and better quality.

I wouldn't get paid twice as much though, and there isn't any opportunity to progress at the moment and I wouldn't want to anyway, so what's the point?

I value my free time.

I'm am honestly lucky, and I fully accept that, but it isn't just luck that allows me to do it, it's because I'm smart and I'm good at my job

There's also the Dunning–Kruger effect...

 

[kitkat9933]

shock horror at the fact that getting a promotion requires some work.

This sounds like the perfect filter to me.

I’d disagree. Leaders should be doing the leg work to get their team members promoted. Employee should just be getting a promotion or not.

Exception being roles where there is a competency element to it eg a test etc

 

[BUDFORCE]

I’d disagree. Leaders should be doing the leg work to get their team members promoted. Employee should just be getting a promotion or not.

Exception being roles where there is a competency element to it eg a test etc

For the right people, but yes exactly.

 

[OspreyO]

There's also the Dunning–Kruger effect...

Isn't that the truth.