Haha what a load of trollop!!! Trying to justify the lazy?? It is pure and simple. Sorry but there are jobs. Somebody in there 30s has a better chance imo as there likely to be more reliable and job worthy. Its not about circumstances at all. Sure if there is a medical reason for not working then I have sympathy it will take longer to find a job. But if your fit and able any job is possible. And there out there, just have to get off your backside and look!!
working for your dole......
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Haha what a load of trollop!!! Trying to justify the lazy?? It is pure and simple. Sorry but there are jobs. Somebody in there 30s has a better chance imo as there likely to be more reliable and job worthy. Its not about circumstances at all. Sure if there is a medical reason for not working then I have sympathy it will take longer to find a job. But if your fit and able any job is possible. And there out there, just have to get off your backside and look!!
Associate
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Personally I think it is a good idea but does thus mean I can get the person next door to me Who has not worked a day in his life and has better things than I have and I have a 40 hour a week job and a family to do some work and call it a tax rebate lol.
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But the value of some labour is beneath minimum wage, making it generally unviable for paid employment. The effect is the job simply doesn't get done. How else do you explain the vast amounts of litter and graffiti plaguing our cities? No council is going to jack up your tax 50% to clean the streets, and no one is going to be willing to pay that much either.
They are economically idle. Searching for a job does not contribute to society, but cleaning up litter would.
I think the majority of people who have been unemployed for 2+ years are the ****less and lazy to be frank. It isn't hard to find paid employment if you really want it.
They cant win
Do nothing get slated and lose Votes. Say policies like this they will back track on, get slated for the slave labour argument.
Either go fully all in and "employ" people in a government run non profit company that will cost millions to run or farm out these people to 3rd party companies, which they all ready tried and failed.
I read its 200,000 people ? Its a miniscule amount of money. Is it even worth bothering? They are not likely to be the kind of people you want in your company anyway, if we take the sterotype all the way.
Do nothing get slated and lose Votes. Say policies like this they will back track on, get slated for the slave labour argument.
Either go fully all in and "employ" people in a government run non profit company that will cost millions to run or farm out these people to 3rd party companies, which they all ready tried and failed.
I read its 200,000 people ? Its a miniscule amount of money. Is it even worth bothering? They are not likely to be the kind of people you want in your company anyway, if we take the sterotype all the way.
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I think they should work for it, but only for the hours that would be equivalent minimum wage. So, if minimum wage is £10, and JSA ia £40 a week, then 4 hours a week doing something should be mandatory. Numbers only examples, I don't think min wage is near £10 yet 
See now I whole heartedly support forced work for the long term unemployed within the public or third sector as surplus staffing.
HOWEVER
To give free labour to the private sector just gives them to excuse to not hire requisite numbers of workers in the first place, which just boosts unemployment and promotes unethical business practise. This is why I am dead set against the "back to work" scheme.
It just means tescos for instance can cut hours and sack off full paid staff.
In the public sector, it saves on taxpayers money, in the third it, benefits society, in private sector it just gives the shareholders a bigger return for them to ship off to a tax haven.
For the long term unemployed what is more, if you're unemployed for a steady 12 months, straight into your forced work placement or you don't get any money. 12 months, maybe a little less, is ample time for anyone to find a job, even if it is cleaning mcdonalds toilets.
HOWEVER
To give free labour to the private sector just gives them to excuse to not hire requisite numbers of workers in the first place, which just boosts unemployment and promotes unethical business practise. This is why I am dead set against the "back to work" scheme.
It just means tescos for instance can cut hours and sack off full paid staff.
In the public sector, it saves on taxpayers money, in the third it, benefits society, in private sector it just gives the shareholders a bigger return for them to ship off to a tax haven.
For the long term unemployed what is more, if you're unemployed for a steady 12 months, straight into your forced work placement or you don't get any money. 12 months, maybe a little less, is ample time for anyone to find a job, even if it is cleaning mcdonalds toilets.
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i think they should get something in between minimum wage and JSA more towards minimum wage.
also it should only be used for long term unemployed
you need to make work pay rather than benefits.
you generally shouldnt be able to gain more on benefits than someone not in the same area.
you should not be able to afford a arge tv/sky etc
im not even going to get started on people who have too many kids and get 1000s more than my partner earns. I have quite strong views on that
all that said, i bet this ends badly :/
also it should only be used for long term unemployed
you need to make work pay rather than benefits.
you generally shouldnt be able to gain more on benefits than someone not in the same area.
you should not be able to afford a arge tv/sky etc
im not even going to get started on people who have too many kids and get 1000s more than my partner earns. I have quite strong views on that
all that said, i bet this ends badly :/
You're missing the point and for some reason that doesn't surprise me at all.
A 30-something vs. a school-leaver is exactly my point. A school-leaver won't always be able to compete or even get those jobs you think are so abundant. It's not at all for lack of trying, yet they're somehow lazy? Have a word with yourself.
Here are some examples for you:
1. A zero hour contract is all that is available but outside commitments prevent you from being 100% flexible, thus rendering the job unavailable.
2. Ditto with certain shift-patterns/night-work. More so with health variables.
3. You live in an economically deprived area and lack the means of transportation.
4. The only jobs available require skillsets which you do not (yet) possess.
You cannot honestly assert with a straight-face that no job equates to laziness.
I didnt think you could claim JSA for more than a couple of years anyway ?
That aside I completely agree with you that if all you are claiming was JSA then you should get minimum wage. If they were receiving other benefits then the amount they get paid should be adjusted so that they wouldnt ever get more than the gross total minimum wage amount, otherwise they would be better off than the person on minimum wage.
If there wasnt any work and they were long term unemployed, I dont see how helping old people less fortunate than themselves should be a problem and dont understand your objection. Giving something back to society which is keeping you shouldnt be seen as penalty, its a decent thing to do and covers for a lack of much needed volunteers.
Do I think they should work for private sector companies, no but local community projects I dont see there is a problem. In fact when I was unemployed for 3 months around 4 years ago I wasnt even allowed to do volunteer work.
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Ever worked in a zero-hour contract?
Imagine getting 40 hours this week, but then 10 hours the next. After that, none. After that, about 15 or so. Add the rest of the weeks from a random number generator.
That's gonna make you more insecure and stressed than even JSA. And because of bureaucracy, you cannot top-up your 0-hour weeks with JSA either.
It's just not worth it.
Zero-hours is great for students or part-timers, or anyone who wants "Extra" money. But making a living out of it or supporting a family.. not so much.
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While I can understand the sentiment wanting to get the long term unemployed to contribute towards society, going about it in the form of a punishment (enforced under threat of losing JSA) I don't feel is the right choice.I didnt think you could claim JSA for more than a couple of years anyway ?
That aside I completely agree with you that if all you are claiming was JSA then you should get minimum wage. If they were receiving other benefits then the amount they get paid should be adjusted so that they wouldnt ever get more than the gross total minimum wage amount, otherwise they would be better off than the person on minimum wage.
If there wasnt any work and they were long term unemployed, I dont see how helping old people less fortunate than themselves should be a problem and dont understand your objection. Giving something back to society which is keeping you shouldnt be seen as penalty, its a decent thing to do and covers for a lack of much needed volunteers.
Do I think they should work for private sector companies, no but local community projects I dont see there is a problem. In fact when I was unemployed for 3 months around 4 years ago I wasnt even allowed to do volunteer work.
Greater benefits could be achieved by offering incentives, for the point you mentioned about doing volunteer work - personally I think a person on JSA should receive a small bonus to JSA for contributing towards a registered/recognised charity, to reward financially those who are willing to put back.
It would also reduce the stigma associated with the work schemes if the people on them are rewarded for doing it & it being kept optional - if the purpose is to increase overall employment we should be using methods to build self-esteem/self-reliance, not really using methods which are closer associated with destroying self-esteem & causing humiliation.
Tbh I'm paying them so they don't pimp out their kids, mug my nan, burgle my house or mug my kids, IMHO they had the good luck to be born in the UK so deserve a bit of the wealth, their family took part in the making of it. There aren't enough jobs to go around, 1500 applied for a £6.95 ph job at the Aldi around the corner from me, why should some damaged weirdo be forced into a job that will make them miserable thus removing it from some family man that is literally suicidal because he can't find one, if we had a job surplus I might consider this policy worthy until then it's designed to make small minded bitter folk feel better about their crappy lives.
We're talking about less than a tenner a day so it's hardly a tempting lifestyle.
Is the scheme ultimately self defeating then? Companies snap up the cheap labour from the Workfare pot. They not longer need to employ folk at the going rate or take on new staff. So instead of creating positions it simply means there will be less and less "real" opportunities for employment.
Plus it just doesn't have the feel of a scheme designed to create job opportunities more of a mechanism to punish those who are deemed to be workshy by the system. The premise seems to be that all these people have simply chosen to be out of work so should be punished. Thing is they've been tinkering with the benefits system anyway so it's thrown lots of people off disability allowance and into the jobs market. And employers only need the faintest whiff of poor health to throw you off the list.
Go on enlighten me County I am sure I could benefit from your wisdom.
Let's be brutally honest. If you haven't got a job and haven't had one for ages then there is plenty you can be doing to help yourself become employable. There are FREE libraries with access to thousands of books and the internet. There is always some kind of learning or volunteering you can be doing to demonstrate willingness to learn and become productive. There are 168 hours in the week, if you're unemployed and on JSA and really want to get back into work I believe you should be spending *AT LEAST* 37.5 hours a week trying to improve your own situation, not blindly sending out CVs for jobs you don't really want whilst the rest of us wipe your backside for you.
The reality is that the majority of people on JSA are not spending their FREE time upskilling or volunteering, otherwise the country would be full of philanthropic self-starters. Which it clearly isn't.
Cue some Labour whinger make excuses about libraries being closed down etc. Get a grip, people need to take responsibility for their own lives. I have a job and do significant free overtime on occasion because I know that to get ahead I need to put the hours in and to get good at something takes time and experience. I'd like to get paid more and I'd like to get paid for every minute overtime I do, but that's not possible - you just have to take the hit and put the effort in. It's the same principle with long term JSA.
In my opinion if you're on JSA long term and haven't found gainful employment you haven't been trying hard enough I'm afraid. There are plenty of opportunities out there.
For the people who are "too far gone" I'm afraid enforced work may be the only option.
I'd like to know what these people on long term JSA do all day. Are they helping themeselves? What exactly are they doing?
The reality is that the majority of people on JSA are not spending their FREE time upskilling or volunteering, otherwise the country would be full of philanthropic self-starters. Which it clearly isn't.
Cue some Labour whinger make excuses about libraries being closed down etc. Get a grip, people need to take responsibility for their own lives. I have a job and do significant free overtime on occasion because I know that to get ahead I need to put the hours in and to get good at something takes time and experience. I'd like to get paid more and I'd like to get paid for every minute overtime I do, but that's not possible - you just have to take the hit and put the effort in. It's the same principle with long term JSA.
In my opinion if you're on JSA long term and haven't found gainful employment you haven't been trying hard enough I'm afraid. There are plenty of opportunities out there.
For the people who are "too far gone" I'm afraid enforced work may be the only option.
I'd like to know what these people on long term JSA do all day. Are they helping themeselves? What exactly are they doing?
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