Logic dictates that playing awful for the last few weeks doesn't mean that he will play awful in the next match. As I say, we shall see. Perhaps a few Torres/spain dissers will have to eat humble pie. Perhaps not, all will be known soon.
World Cup 2010 - Semi-finals **spoilers**
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Logic dictates that playing awful for the last few weeks doesn't mean that he will play awful in the next match. As I say, we shall see. Perhaps a few Torres/spain dissers will have to eat humble pie. Perhaps not, all will be known soon.
Caporegime
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Ah so it's ok for one team to cheat....but not the other. Yes I see it now. Dirty Uruguay cheats, Ghana would have won the World Cup if not for that. Darn.
I never said it was ok for one or other, but if it helps you to just make things up to try and continue your 'stupid argument', don't let me stop you. Nothing like a good strawman when you realise you don't have a point any more.
What I took issue with was the assertion that hand balling a goal off the line isn't cheating.
Karma or not, it is clearly cheating, to say otherwise is madness.
Just like stealing from the monopoly bank is cheating, regardless of whether everyone else did it too and it was just balancing out overall...
Ghana had every chance to win with the Penalty. They didn't and threw away their chance.
Cheating or not cheating. They missed a golden.opportunity
Caporegime
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Caporegime
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So would handballing a cross heading towards an unmarked player be cheating or not?
Fouling intentionally is also cheating. Diving is cheating.
Fouling because you misjudged your speed, or the ball etc. is an accident.
Accidental fouls are usually dealt with via a free kick, deliberate ones with a card and a kick.
Perfectly sensible, fair and proportionate recompense to the disadvantaged team.
As is fouling a striker going for goal - he had a chance, gets awarded a penalty giving him another chance.
When it's a sure goal though, I can't say I agree with the rules only punishing by giving a chance as a penalty.
It basically sets a precedent, it is advantageous to always handball off the line in the dying moments of a game because it means rather than definitely conceding, you only 'might concede'. Getting sent off with minutes to go is no big deal really either. It effectively makes it a good idea to deliberately break the rules to win because even if you get caught doing it, you are still better off after the fact anyway.
Deliberately, yes, cheating. A penalty is a fair punishment for that cheating - they had a good chance at a goal, a penalty gives them a good chance again.
So, would if be "fair" to award Ghana the goal and send the player off?
Not an Ireland fan are we?
I think that would be the fairest outcome to having a goal illegally handled away from the line (I am and have been talking in general terms about deliberate fouling/cheating rather than the fairness of this game in overall terms)
Don't be ridiculous, there is a huge difference between awarding a goal and giving them the cup, if you're going to discuss, could you at least try and keep it sensible?
I just don't think it's right that as the rules stand, even if you are caught and punished for the foul play, you are still at an advantage (a considerable one too) compared to if you had played fairly and within the rules.
Surely you must see my issue there? I don't see that it's right that the rules can effectively reward a team for breaking them even when caught.
Decent semi - normally they are cagey affairs with not many goals - credit to uruguay and forlan who has had a great tournament. Also happy for Dirk Kuyt - quietly going about is business and has been involved with a lot of the dutch goals so far - having a great tournament and deserves it for his effort.
Cracking semi lined up tomorrow - think i want the spaniards to go through but the germans have blown everybody away - and probably will do again as they are so damn efficient....
Cracking semi lined up tomorrow - think i want the spaniards to go through but the germans have blown everybody away - and probably will do again as they are so damn efficient....
Caporegime
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You aren't really though
Goal vs near certain goal + opposition man down. If it's in the first half I'm sure you'd take the latter option. It's dangerous to say "ooh they should be given a goal and the man sent off" How do you judge whether it was deliberate or not? That's a game ender if it happens early on and it was an accident. I've always thought it's harsh it being a red and a penalty if it's an accident.
The punishment was to concede a penalty and be down to ten men.
Ghana were presented with the chance to take the lead (you think they should have had anyway) and possibly win the game. They didn't Boo Hoo, happens in football.
I don't particularly think Ghana were robbed, they had the chance to win, they then lost out on a shoot out.
The penalty and red card were the punishment, I don't see your point, Ghana were presented with the chance to win and didn't.
Cheating has and always will happen, just part and parcel of football.
Ghana were presented with the chance to take the lead (you think they should have had anyway) and possibly win the game. They didn't Boo Hoo, happens in football.
I don't particularly think Ghana were robbed, they had the chance to win, they then lost out on a shoot out.
The penalty and red card were the punishment, I don't see your point, Ghana were presented with the chance to win and didn't.
Cheating has and always will happen, just part and parcel of football.
Judging accidental/deliberate is always going to be a judgement call by the ref, nothing you can really do about that. Same with the vast majority of similar judgement calls you get in a game.
As for the advantage, well, you are most definitely better off if you do it in the dying moments, during early open play is more debatable, i'll concede. That said, punishing a goal line handball by awarding the goal and sending off would certainly make players think twice about doing it.
Ultimately though, the Ghana - Uruguay match just demonstrated there was a 'loophole' if you will, in the current rules.
If they had played that sequence fairly, they were out, cup over for them.
Breaking the rules though, puts them at a clear advantage.
- If they don't get caught, awesome, blocked the goal and no penalty for it at all.
- If they do get caught, they go a man down for a bit and have a chance that the penalty won't get converted into the sure fire goal they just stopped happening. Given the pressure on such a kick too, the odds must be pretty good on the miss as well. Crucially though, they are not out, even if they have to play extra time with 10 men, it's better than being out. Even if they have to play the next game without a key defender it's better than being out.
As it happens, Uruguay did benefit and eventually went through.
Even removed from the Ghana Uruguay setting, can you see what I am getting at with this? In that situation, at the end of the game, there is absolutely no reason not to cheat other than the players own morals, quite the opposite, you are effectively rewarded if you DO cheat. I think that's a flaw in the rules.
As for the advantage, well, you are most definitely better off if you do it in the dying moments, during early open play is more debatable, i'll concede. That said, punishing a goal line handball by awarding the goal and sending off would certainly make players think twice about doing it.
Ultimately though, the Ghana - Uruguay match just demonstrated there was a 'loophole' if you will, in the current rules.
If they had played that sequence fairly, they were out, cup over for them.
Breaking the rules though, puts them at a clear advantage.
- If they don't get caught, awesome, blocked the goal and no penalty for it at all.
- If they do get caught, they go a man down for a bit and have a chance that the penalty won't get converted into the sure fire goal they just stopped happening. Given the pressure on such a kick too, the odds must be pretty good on the miss as well. Crucially though, they are not out, even if they have to play extra time with 10 men, it's better than being out. Even if they have to play the next game without a key defender it's better than being out.
As it happens, Uruguay did benefit and eventually went through.
Even removed from the Ghana Uruguay setting, can you see what I am getting at with this? In that situation, at the end of the game, there is absolutely no reason not to cheat other than the players own morals, quite the opposite, you are effectively rewarded if you DO cheat. I think that's a flaw in the rules.
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No.
Awarding a penalty kick and the team being down to ten men is punishment enough.
1st or 91st minute.
Your head might explode if your team make an accidental handball, and is awarded a goal against the run of play and down to ten men.
Awarding a penalty kick and the team being down to ten men is punishment enough.
1st or 91st minute.
Your head might explode if your team make an accidental handball, and is awarded a goal against the run of play and down to ten men.
Do you not see my point about how it effectively gives the offending team a reward for breaking the rules though? It's not 'punishment enough' because it leaves them in a better off situation.
Regardless of getting caught, it means you are always better off breaking the rules rather than sticking to them, a situation I don't think should exist.
You can always place sensible caveats - if the offence is judged accidental, the punishment is less severe, as I believe is currently the case with handballs? Deliberate vs accidental are treated differently?
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