World Cup 2018

if he is so world class where is his scoring record in the actual tourney ? compare him to actual real world class strikers and he is no where, will be no where and will never be any where. He is an over hyped, good club player and thats about it. World class players do it at all levels. Rooney has proven time and time again that he cannot. So he scored against some 2nd rate teams in the qualifiers, big deal. I don't see him slotting them in during the real deal.............

If for a moment we agree that Rooney isn't a world class forward, let's have a look at who currently is better than him who is eligible to play for England:

Nobody.

The great black hope that is Daniel Sturridge turned out to be as effective on the international stage as a wet fart and after that, there is literally nobody fit to lace Rooneys boots at the moment.
 
Hart is 27, 31 at the next world cup. Forster is 26, 30 at the next world cup. Butland seems decent.

Chalobah, Ward-Prowse, Redmond, Berahino, Keane, Jenkinson, Flanagan, Wisdom, Hughes, Morrison, Shelvey, Ince, Zaha, Powell, Wickham, and Afobe seem decent players. Some of them might not be good enough for the national team, but these are some ok players I think. That is apart from the obvious Sterling, Oxlade, etc.
 
Is this the same same filthy Shrek that in 18 months time could well be England and United's all time goal scorer, surpassing the likes of Bobby Charlton, Jimmy Greaves, Denis Law etc?

That one?

Again that means nothing. How many goals has he actually scored when it counted. How many goals has he actually scored in a world cup finals tournament..... being the all time scorer for MU or England means nothing without context, i.e in the context of the goals actually won something for England. BUt he's has scored all of 1 goal in 3 world cups. So again how does that make him world class ?? He can't do it on a world stage and its not like he hasn't had enough opportunities.
 
Is this the same same filthy Shrek that in 18 months time could well be England and United's all time goal scorer, surpassing the likes of Bobby Charlton, Jimmy Greaves, Denis Law etc?

That one?

and crouch iirc scored 21 goals or something in 40 appearances, how many do you think he'd have if he played 100+ games and 80% of them were against such quality teams as San Marino and Jamaica?

90% of international games are against teams that are effectively league one quality at best. Scoring a bunch against those and being crap at every tournament someone could EASILY break every scoring record. We play more games, more friendlies and there is a bigger difference between nations now.
Scoring records aren't in any way an indication of how good someone is.

Striker A plays in the 60's, he has a career playing from 20 to 28 before his knees go, he plays 20 internationals and scored 10 goals. Striker B plays in the 00's, he plays from 17 to 38, he plays 150 internationals and beats Striker A's record.... obviously brilliant.

Rooney was woeful yesterday, getting in the way, slowing attacks, fluffing shots from 3 yards, repeatedly, losing the ball.. and yet scored. Suarez got only one more goal yet barely put a foot wrong.

Scoring doesn't mean good, it means... you scored. Crouch WOULD be the top all time England scorer if he played every England game he could during his career... it would only be a matter of playing enough games, being involved in enough games against Jamaica, if he did so would that make him the best English striker available?

Rooney is scoring because Rooney is playing, if Crouch had been playing every game instead of Rooney, he'd be getting goals, if you played Cahill upfront as a striker instead of Rooney he WOULD be scoring goals, maybe not as many but he'd still be scoring, that is the nature of football.

No one on the pitch shined with Rooney playing "upfront", his runs were poor, his movement poor and his attempted creative passing was woeful. Sturridge is currently a much better striker, largely because he's willing to play as a striker while Rooney is doing some unfamiliar role no one can identify.
 
Again that means nothing. How many goals has he actually scored when it counted. How many goals has he actually scored in a world cup finals tournament..... being the all time scorer for MU or England means nothing without context, i.e in the context of the goals actually won something for England. BUt he's has scored all of 1 goal in 3 world cups. So again how does that make him world class ?? He can't do it on a world stage and its not like he hasn't had enough opportunities.

When it counted?

Does scoring in WC qualifiers count as nothing then? You can't solely blame Rooney for every WC debacle, what about Lampard/Gerrard not being able to play together even though they are world class? What about the managers picking the wrong squads? There are many factors as to why England have failed, blaming Rooney is short sighted and only people with limited knowledge blame Rooney for it.

You're like the idiots that watch most England games, yesterday in the pub there were 20 odd people calling for his head and proclaiming how **** he was, to turn round and declare him a god when he scored.

Fickle part time football fans.
 
and crouch iirc scored 21 goals or something in 40 appearances, how many do you think he'd have if he played 100+ games and 80% of them were against such quality teams as San Marino and Jamaica?

90% of international games are against teams that are effectively league one quality at best. Scoring a bunch against those and being crap at every tournament someone could EASILY break every scoring record. We play more games, more friendlies and there is a bigger difference between nations now.
Scoring records aren't in any way an indication of how good someone is.

Striker A plays in the 60's, he has a career playing from 20 to 28 before his knees go, he plays 20 internationals and scored 10 goals. Striker B plays in the 00's, he plays from 17 to 38, he plays 150 internationals and beats Striker A's record.... obviously brilliant.

Rooney was woeful yesterday, getting in the way, slowing attacks, fluffing shots from 3 yards, repeatedly, losing the ball.. and yet scored. Suarez got only one more goal yet barely put a foot wrong.

Scoring doesn't mean good, it means... you scored. Crouch WOULD be the top all time England scorer if he played every England game he could during his career... it would only be a matter of playing enough games, being involved in enough games against Jamaica, if he did so would that make him the best English striker available?

Rooney is scoring because Rooney is playing, if Crouch had been playing every game instead of Rooney, he'd be getting goals, if you played Cahill upfront as a striker instead of Rooney he WOULD be scoring goals, maybe not as many but he'd still be scoring, that is the nature of football.

No one on the pitch shined with Rooney playing "upfront", his runs were poor, his movement poor and his attempted creative passing was woeful. Sturridge is currently a much better striker, largely because he's willing to play as a striker while Rooney is doing some unfamiliar role no one can identify.

Great drop him, I'm fine with that.

Replace him with all the brilliant strikers we have. Sturridge has one decent season and he's the second coming all of a sudden :D

Is this the Sturridge who was sold by City and Chelsea because he couldn't understand it was a team game and when he wasn't falling over his own feet was trying to score on his own from every angle, regardless of whether his team mates were in better positions or not.
 
I really don't like Rooney, I do think he's overrated (That's not a dislike of him as a person, I don't judge footballers ability based on how they are off field, as I don't care what they get up to in their own time) - But that performance wasn't his fault. The collective of the team/squad just aren't good enough.

Edit: I also don't think we have any better strikers than him, which obviously isn't his fault.
 
Again that means nothing. How many goals has he actually scored when it counted. How many goals has he actually scored in a world cup finals tournament..... being the all time scorer for MU or England means nothing without context, i.e in the context of the goals actually won something for England. BUt he's has scored all of 1 goal in 3 world cups. So again how does that make him world class ?? He can't do it on a world stage and its not like he hasn't had enough opportunities.

Ronaldo has a whopping 2 goals in WC tournments.

Messi's isn't much better.

I don't think it counts for much

Muller has like 7/8?
 
Great drop him, I'm fine with that.

Replace him with all the brilliant strikers we have. Sturridge has one decent season and he's the second coming all of a sudden :D

Is this the Sturridge who was sold by City and Chelsea because he couldn't understand it was a team game and when he wasn't falling over his own feet was trying to score on his own from every angle, regardless of whether his team mates were in better positions or not.

Well if you want to be accurate, he scored well at City and WAS NOT SOLD, his contract was up, they offered him a new one, Chelsea offered him a better one and more potential for first team. Remember at this point City were at the beginning of their "lets by 30million players for every position" time meaning youth had little to no chance. Chelsea did and still do spend big but they were further along the line and in need of strikers. he had a good record at Chelsea, but look at Chelsea, they've started Torres for 4 years despite having a worse record than other strikers at the same club.

Look up his stats before you talk crap about him, the ONLY difference particularly in the last 18 months is he's playing more. He was also usually played out of position at Chelsea. Using Chelsea's stupidity in not starting him isn't a good argument to suggest he's bad, because he was not bad at Chelsea.

Ba had a better minutes to goals ratio in the league than Suarez... just didn't get starts despite being fit most of the season. They still persisted with a worse striker because... well it's pretty clear Roman wants him to start and wants a return on the likely 100+mil with bonuses and wages that Torres cost.

Pretty ****ing good indication of how good a striker is.

Which would be really useful.... if Rooney didn't spend most of his time in central midfield pretending he's Pirlo... but you know, without the passing skill.

Also it's actually not a great indication , it's ONE indication he might be a good goal scorer, not a striker. One player can make brilliant runs, show brilliant movement and run the defence ragged all game making space for others, creating attacks, and score one goal. Another player can be rubbish at all of that and get a tap in. Goal scoring record...same, performance, entirely different. A striker who occupies, terrifies the other team for 90 mins helps prevent them attacking themselves, helps greatly in every way.

You win games, tournaments, titles based on having more players perform well over 90 minutes. Having someone who was crap for all but well literally 30 seconds in both games hurt the team badly.

Even worse with Rooney was he drops deep so often he gets in everyone's way in midfield and being absent upfront means the defence only has to make Sturridge, rather than two players making a run. He does almost everything wrong and hurt the team on a huge scale throughout the game.

If he was driving forwards, giving the opposition less time to attack, making a unselfish run to drag defenders away maybe Sterling cuts in and runs through the space Rooney makes, maybe because Rooney runs across the back four he drags players out of position Sturridge gets passed in, the defence drops Rooney and Sturridge passes to Rooney who scores.

He spent so long peeing around in midfield, he hurt the offence badly by constantly being out of position, the team couldn't work well as a result. Rooney made it EASIER for their defence, harder for our offence, and managed to fluff most of the easiest chances in both games, where if someone else was on the pitch we would have created more chances, and a player less completely out of form would have scored more of those chances as well.
 
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Seriously DM, I really can't be arsed to pull your post to bits, some of us have jobs to do.

He wasn't sold, REALLY, are you really going to play that as a counter argument LoL :D

But let me say this, and you will know where I'm coming from, you use stats to back up your argument, stats that you pull out of your arse to back up your points, it has been proven time and time again.

I for one don't have time for that dude :)
 
Seriously DM, I really can't be arsed to pull your post to bits, some of us have jobs to do.

He wasn't sold, REALLY, are you really going to play that as a counter argument LoL :D

But let me say this, and you will know where I'm coming from, you use stats to back up your argument, stats that you pull out of your arse to back up your points, it has been proven time and time again.

I for one don't have time for that dude :)

Are you on crack, you used City selling him as "proof" he wasn't good. City offered him a contract to stay and Sturridge CHOSE to leave for more money, making your argument completely daft, because it's incorrect and the real situation is the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you are saying. City didn't get rid of him, they tried to keep him because they thought he was good enough.

Also yes, well done I use stats to BACK UP AN ARGUMENT, I don't use stats ALONE to make the entire argument.

If you can physically see someone playing crap, but he gets a few goals, that doesn't make him good, if you see someone playing great AND he is scoring/assisting/tackling well/not conceding, these BACK UP the point.

Stats alone are meaningless and as you pointed out and said has been proven time and time again, I use stats to back up an argument, not as an argument themselves.
 
If anyone is on crack, it's the bloke that is randomly capitalizing his words.

Stats can be made to work in your favour depending on the outcome you want, something that you constantly do and constantly get found out about.

Jog on DM, you're full of it. Minus the SH.
 
Ronaldo has a whopping 2 goals in WC tournments.

Messi's isn't much better.

I don't think it counts for much

Muller has like 7/8?

2 players who actually make a difference on the pitch. 2 players who aren't in the wrong place, breaking up the flow or slowing down the tempo, 2 players who actually have active intelligent footballing brains. If you are trying to say Rooney is in the same league as Ronaldo or Messi you should seriously go home.
 
If anyone is on crack, it's the bloke that is randomly capitalizing his words.

Stats can be made to work in your favour depending on the outcome you want, something that you constantly do and constantly get found out about.

Jog on DM, you're full of it. Minus the SH.

how about you jog on with England who are also jogging on due to their ineptness as a football team ? It is you who are so full of it you can't pull your tongue out of Rooney's arse to see this.
 
how about you jog on with England who are also jogging on due to their ineptness as a football team ? It is you who are so full of it you can't pull your tongue out of Rooney's arse to see this.

Oooh matron.

If you knew anything about the football stadium instead of coming in here like the fair weather football fan, you would realise I am Rooney's biggest critic.

Run along back to Sports Direct and see if you can return your twice worn England shirt.
 
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