***World of Warcraft : Warlords of Draenor***
- Thread starter Droolinggimp
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Oh, without a doubt. WoW just takes it to an extreme. I supposed I've been somewhat spoiled, playing FFXI for the best part of a decade. Prior to the latest expansion (which killed the game, they switched to vertical growth
), a truly rare or hard to obtain item was never worthless in terms of stats, regardless of its level, due in part to a much broader pool of attributes to put on equipment, and a very unconventional mid-combat gear-swapping system.I agree on the removal of those attributes from WoW though; and it's odd, because on that front, the game is about as boring as it can get, with every piece having a template for stats, all seemingly calculated automatically, based on the item level. Here's hoping the new lifesteal, cleave, multi-hit, movement speed and AoE avoidance stats make up for it.
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I've avoided this game since mid Cata but admit to being sorely tempted, though I know this is partly nostalgia kicking in as TBC was by far the best wow incarnation (for me)
I'm going to wait for more info and see what happens half of me wants to play the other half is still screaming "nooooo you'll just be bored after 10mijsagain" aargh decisions!
I'm going to wait for more info and see what happens half of me wants to play the other half is still screaming "nooooo you'll just be bored after 10mijsagain" aargh decisions!
Soldato
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I played for a few months and enjoyed MoP although felt kinda drained after a short while. This is looking interesting and if nothing else will be good fun for a few months at least. I'm liking the stat reduction, was getting quite silly.
100% agree, it was getting silly with thousands of stats on each item and hundreds of thousands of DPS etc. Looks like they are pushing it back down to BC levels which felt about right to me.
Regarding release date MMO Champ says:
So hopefully early-mid 2014
For me the biggest thing is there will be very few daily quests at level 100. Hopefully the Heroic 5 mans will actually be heroic again and they bring back rep tabards!
I'm a bit on the fence about the potential success of this expansion and whether I want to play it or not. But if rep tabards came back I would be all over it, probably one of the biggest things I missed from WOLTK
No actual release date being announced makes me kinda curious (seeming as they binned titan and moved the majority of those guys too wow again) they should have been making good progress but they have been really mum about when a launch might be and that is worrying as they have been asked multiple times and they have never answered at what time it could be so it could be anywhere from spring to winter next year...
Getting rid of reforge stops the money sink for raiders and stops the confusion sink for newer or returning player's but from a recruiting point of view is gonna make it harder to judge how good a person is.
New models look really good but i don't like how they are leaving out Worgen and Goblin until either late 6.0 or early 6.1 it just comes off as surely you would do all the models for the new exp? right? right?
I like the item squish because it was getting abit silly (seeing people bursting mil+in raids is just silly) not to mention having too calculate bigger numbers must be harder for recount or skada to do and as its the whole of wow that is being squished so its not going to matter.
Raiding size on the other hand is a change i don't like and it really really came off like we don't want to spend time making 10 and 25 different difficulties and want to be just be lazy so lets just have 20 man raiding, So next expansion (atm cause they said somethings might change) they will be forcing 10 player raiders to recruit 10 more people which spoils the point of 10 man raiding as some people don't have the pcs to run 20 man raiding nor do they probably want to run with twice the people!
That isn't even as bad (even though some people are claiming its worse) as what they are doing 25 raiding guilds as a 25 man raider i can tell you that most 25 man guilds need 25 + 4 ish or more so that they know they can raid every raid day (because of different bosses favoring different setups or possible absence's) now what blizzard have done yesterday is pretty much tell your gm's that you have to get rid of x number of people from your guild because the next content scales you don't want to be taking 28-30 players into the next expansion there is not point you may as well just look at who is consistently the best and if the other's don't improve fail there trial's/members or just wait and see who leaves before the expansion and demote them or whatever, I even watched the wow q and a panel being asked "why are you doing this to 10 man?" and there answer was the usual "what we want to see happen here" and that they were "Sorri".
Overall looking forward to it but i think there needs to be abit of reworking and a release window showed cause atm if this game does not come out till september like panda did the game is gonna lose so many people! + it is going to be hard to justify resubbing when there is no active raiding content for months...
Getting rid of reforge stops the money sink for raiders and stops the confusion sink for newer or returning player's but from a recruiting point of view is gonna make it harder to judge how good a person is.
New models look really good but i don't like how they are leaving out Worgen and Goblin until either late 6.0 or early 6.1 it just comes off as surely you would do all the models for the new exp? right? right?
I like the item squish because it was getting abit silly (seeing people bursting mil+in raids is just silly) not to mention having too calculate bigger numbers must be harder for recount or skada to do and as its the whole of wow that is being squished so its not going to matter.
Raiding size on the other hand is a change i don't like and it really really came off like we don't want to spend time making 10 and 25 different difficulties and want to be just be lazy so lets just have 20 man raiding, So next expansion (atm cause they said somethings might change) they will be forcing 10 player raiders to recruit 10 more people which spoils the point of 10 man raiding as some people don't have the pcs to run 20 man raiding nor do they probably want to run with twice the people!
That isn't even as bad (even though some people are claiming its worse) as what they are doing 25 raiding guilds as a 25 man raider i can tell you that most 25 man guilds need 25 + 4 ish or more so that they know they can raid every raid day (because of different bosses favoring different setups or possible absence's) now what blizzard have done yesterday is pretty much tell your gm's that you have to get rid of x number of people from your guild because the next content scales you don't want to be taking 28-30 players into the next expansion there is not point you may as well just look at who is consistently the best and if the other's don't improve fail there trial's/members or just wait and see who leaves before the expansion and demote them or whatever, I even watched the wow q and a panel being asked "why are you doing this to 10 man?" and there answer was the usual "what we want to see happen here" and that they were "Sorri".
Overall looking forward to it but i think there needs to be abit of reworking and a release window showed cause atm if this game does not come out till september like panda did the game is gonna lose so many people! + it is going to be hard to justify resubbing when there is no active raiding content for months...
Soldato
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totally pumped for this expansion as anyone will know who was following the blizzcon thread.
Cant wait to see more info being released.
I guess the first indicator of a realistic release date will be how soon we see this on PTR. It looks like they dont plan on any more content patches for MOP so we could be looking towards Q2 of 2014 as a release.
The blizzard forums are teh usual gathering of QQ and unsub threads, some over the stat removals, some whining about their 100k yaks they bought now losing a vendor lol.
Blizz cant win.
Personally i was so pumped for Siege of Ogrimmar but have barely played in the last few weeks. I didnt particularly like the timeless isle, and the thought that they may be tailoring more content to that kind of model seems weird to me.
Id love to see more story progression like Shieldwall/Dominance in Karsarang tho
Cant wait to see more info being released.
I guess the first indicator of a realistic release date will be how soon we see this on PTR. It looks like they dont plan on any more content patches for MOP so we could be looking towards Q2 of 2014 as a release.
The blizzard forums are teh usual gathering of QQ and unsub threads, some over the stat removals, some whining about their 100k yaks they bought now losing a vendor lol.
Blizz cant win.
Personally i was so pumped for Siege of Ogrimmar but have barely played in the last few weeks. I didnt particularly like the timeless isle, and the thought that they may be tailoring more content to that kind of model seems weird to me.
Id love to see more story progression like Shieldwall/Dominance in Karsarang tho
Soldato
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hit and expertise are going along with dodge and parry.
They are also removing the ability to reforge and instead adding teirtary stats to gear.
heres a nice leaked vid of frostfire ridge showing orc mage animations .
They are also removing the realm first achievements for hitting 100, not sure about other realm 1st achievements.
There also seems to be an insane amount of QQ about the item squish and the fact that apparently GC mentioned somewhere that theres a possibility they wont allow flying until 6.1, not being able to fly till you hit max level is normal with a new expansion. This new thought is that the world should feel threatening and being able to bypass everything with flying takes away from that feeling.
Personally id prefer they add a flying fatigue than remove that ability till the first patch. They could also add flying combat with mobs in the air if they wanted to add a bit of danger to flying
They are also removing the ability to reforge and instead adding teirtary stats to gear.
heres a nice leaked vid of frostfire ridge showing orc mage animations .
They are also removing the realm first achievements for hitting 100, not sure about other realm 1st achievements.
There also seems to be an insane amount of QQ about the item squish and the fact that apparently GC mentioned somewhere that theres a possibility they wont allow flying until 6.1, not being able to fly till you hit max level is normal with a new expansion. This new thought is that the world should feel threatening and being able to bypass everything with flying takes away from that feeling.
Personally id prefer they add a flying fatigue than remove that ability till the first patch. They could also add flying combat with mobs in the air if they wanted to add a bit of danger to flying
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The main people whining about item squish is probably kids who didnt start playing until end of cata or later and like seeing massive numbers on the screen. It's not going to change how fast you kill things just lower numbers.
I think preventing flying would be a good move, you get to see so much more of the areas when you can't fly.
I think preventing flying would be a good move, you get to see so much more of the areas when you can't fly.
I toyed with the idea of coming back on my old warlock but I think it was mainly nostalgia tempting me in. I had a free trial of Mists to run around but it would cost me too much with a server transfer to warrant it all really. Found a few people I played with back in 2006 are still playing somehow.
Been playing FF XIv and I do quite enjoy it but WOW was my first MMO and I don't think anything will ever top it for me, especially the first 4 years.
The other issue is so much has changed since I left that it all just seems too overwhelming.
Been playing FF XIv and I do quite enjoy it but WOW was my first MMO and I don't think anything will ever top it for me, especially the first 4 years.
The other issue is so much has changed since I left that it all just seems too overwhelming.
This is IMO looking like the coolest expansion content wise since TBC, it's just a massive shame that what could have been the best expansion yet is already ruined for most players due to one colossal mistake (the removal of 10m heroic raiding) 
The way I see it 10m players have a couple of options:
Seems cruel to say it but IMO Blizzard should just have let the natural death of 25m occur instead of trying to keep it on life support and screw over the majority of the player base.
The way I see it 10m players have a couple of options:
- Gquit and find a 20m guild (not a valid option if you do 10m because like most you prefer that raid size/style to 25m).
- Hope your guild merges with another (above note applies here too).
- Carry on as normal expect instead of progressing to heroic after clearing normal just unsub and wait for the next content patch.
- Find a new MMO to play.
Seems cruel to say it but IMO Blizzard should just have let the natural death of 25m occur instead of trying to keep it on life support and screw over the majority of the player base.
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Soldato
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10man heroic raiding is still there, they just are not involved in Mythic raiding unless they upscale to 20man.
Anyone who feels any less special ********** at that change will either recruit more players, merg with other guilds or unsub.
Either way it wont have any impact on the vast majority of players.
I doubt very much that they will see significant sub losses due to the change to 20man mythic raiding.
You can still do all the same content on 10man, if you want to be involved in mythic, world first races you need to be 20man. As 10 you can still do normals and heroics.
If their reasoning is correct that they will then be able to cater mythic mechanics to the one specific size of 20mans then i think thats a great change, a brave one yes but a great one.
Someone like Paragon dropped to 10 man precisely because they were easier to manage, now they will goto 20man or not be involved in the race any more. For the methods and midwinters etc it will mean less of an upheaval.
I much preferred raiding in wrath when 10 and 25man had different loot to account for the increased difficulty in managing the raid sizes.
Now it seems we will see similar with mythic gear being better than the heroic gear to represent the increased difficulty of the encounters and requiring double the amount of people to complete them.
Makes sense to me.
Anyone who feels any less special ********** at that change will either recruit more players, merg with other guilds or unsub.
Either way it wont have any impact on the vast majority of players.
I doubt very much that they will see significant sub losses due to the change to 20man mythic raiding.
You can still do all the same content on 10man, if you want to be involved in mythic, world first races you need to be 20man. As 10 you can still do normals and heroics.
If their reasoning is correct that they will then be able to cater mythic mechanics to the one specific size of 20mans then i think thats a great change, a brave one yes but a great one.
Someone like Paragon dropped to 10 man precisely because they were easier to manage, now they will goto 20man or not be involved in the race any more. For the methods and midwinters etc it will mean less of an upheaval.
I much preferred raiding in wrath when 10 and 25man had different loot to account for the increased difficulty in managing the raid sizes.
Now it seems we will see similar with mythic gear being better than the heroic gear to represent the increased difficulty of the encounters and requiring double the amount of people to complete them.
Makes sense to me.
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Sorry but no.
MoP LFR = WoD LFR
MoP Flex = WoD Normal
MoP Normal = WoD Heroic
MoP Heroic = WoD Mythic
So heroic is being removed for 10m (technically it's being removed for 25m too but as they only have to bench/cut 5 players and their raid style isn't really changing it's nowhere near as big an impact).
We're not talking about something that only effects the hardcore no lifers here, were talking about something that effects casuals and up >.>
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Soldato
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so what part of that means 10mans cant do heroic? I know im bein pedantic
If the current normal is effectively gonna be the new heroic then 10mans will be able to do "heroic" in Wod albeit under a different relative difficulty.
Now if your saying they cant do mythic then yes, but we know that now, so people have upwards of a year to prepare for that or just throw the toys out of the pram till then.
We havent seen anything yet to show how difficult the new normal/heroic difficulty will be so its too early to worry about unsubbing until we see some indication of the challenge you will face at heroic level.
If what we now class as normal in terms of mechanics and boss health will be exactly the same as the new "heroic" then guilds need to accept that. Honestly i dont see the QQ, im in a guild which raids exclusively 10mans and our teamspeak during blizzcon was positive about the changes. Rather than see it as the demise of our raiding, when combined with the merging of realms we look at it as an opportunity to get more people involed.
You make the best of a bad situation, some peoples glasses are half empty where others are half full etc etc
Blizzard cannot please all the players all the time, so they have to make difficult decisions, and as we have seen in the past they also wont be afraid to go back on those decisions if they turn out to be bad choices.
There was a big outcry when they made 10man and 25mans share the same lockouts, there was a big outcry when they shared the same ilvl of loot, there was a big outcry when it heralded the death of 25's.
This outcry will be no different, people will adjust or quit.
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I mean if you believe what you read on blizzard forums then 90% of the community will be quitting for reasons ranging from
- its the death of 10 man raiding
- its the death of my characters personality
- the new models are awful
- blizzard may not be offering free customisation at launch
- instant level 90's ruin my life
- dumbing down by removing stats
- dumbing down by adding stats
- copying ideas from other games
- not having enough new ideas
- going back to outlands
- going back to outlands (deliberatly did that twice to show how stupid the QQ's are)
Only thing we are guaranteed is that more info will come out now and people have all the time in the world to make up their minds
If the current normal is effectively gonna be the new heroic then 10mans will be able to do "heroic" in Wod albeit under a different relative difficulty.
Now if your saying they cant do mythic then yes, but we know that now, so people have upwards of a year to prepare for that or just throw the toys out of the pram till then.
We havent seen anything yet to show how difficult the new normal/heroic difficulty will be so its too early to worry about unsubbing until we see some indication of the challenge you will face at heroic level.
If what we now class as normal in terms of mechanics and boss health will be exactly the same as the new "heroic" then guilds need to accept that. Honestly i dont see the QQ, im in a guild which raids exclusively 10mans and our teamspeak during blizzcon was positive about the changes. Rather than see it as the demise of our raiding, when combined with the merging of realms we look at it as an opportunity to get more people involed.
You make the best of a bad situation, some peoples glasses are half empty where others are half full etc etc
Blizzard cannot please all the players all the time, so they have to make difficult decisions, and as we have seen in the past they also wont be afraid to go back on those decisions if they turn out to be bad choices.
There was a big outcry when they made 10man and 25mans share the same lockouts, there was a big outcry when they shared the same ilvl of loot, there was a big outcry when it heralded the death of 25's.
This outcry will be no different, people will adjust or quit.
/edit
I mean if you believe what you read on blizzard forums then 90% of the community will be quitting for reasons ranging from
- its the death of 10 man raiding
- its the death of my characters personality
- the new models are awful
- blizzard may not be offering free customisation at launch
- instant level 90's ruin my life
- dumbing down by removing stats
- dumbing down by adding stats
- copying ideas from other games
- not having enough new ideas
- going back to outlands
- going back to outlands (deliberatly did that twice to show how stupid the QQ's are)
Only thing we are guaranteed is that more info will come out now and people have all the time in the world to make up their minds
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so what part of that means 10mans cant do heroic? I know im bein pedantic
If the current normal is effectively gonna be the new heroic then 10mans will be able to do "heroic" in Wod albeit under a different relative difficulty.
Im not trying to be rude but I'm not quite sure which part of the situation your not getting, if Intel took your i5 off you and gave you a Pentium dual core instead, but renamed it to i5, would you be ok with that?
I doubt it will be a year as we're at the end of MoP now, the only reason the was such a delay between the end of Cata and the start of MoP was to drum up business for D3.
We saw it on the first day of Blizzcon and GC confirmed it after.
Yes that's whats happening.
The issue here is that they are catering to the minority at the expense of the majority, they should have just let 25's die naturally instead of this train wreck attempt at life support.
Actually those received overall positive responses, it was only 25m guilds who were up in arms about it, sort of a "unsilent minority" this time it's the majority of raiders (10m guilds) who are outraged at their play style being destroyed.
The issue is though, they shouldn't have to, this is totally unneeded, it's simply Blizzard being out of touch and messing with things they don't really understand, GC is on record as saying that 10m's are just something people do because they can't get a 25m guild going, that's how off the mark they are, and so you get results like this. They should be removing 25's as 10's are by far the much much more popular format however in their mind 10's are irrelevant so collateral damage when obtaining their goal, which is basically one Mythic size so less work for them (they even say that themselves).
Soldato
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Dont worry matey nothing taken as rude, i just like to have a bit of a troll when i see people declaring the end of the world when all i see is blizzard trying something new. Also ive been reading blizzard forums too much so my QQ alert is on overdrive 
so were at the same point as we started, you either accept it or gather your issues and make them clear to the devs in whatever form you can. Im sure theres a lot of people trying petitions or giving decent alternatives to the problem blizzard seeing with the raiding.
Constructive feedback with solutions is what they want, people moaning like spoilt little brats isnt gonna get the argument anywhere. (im not implying thats you by the way, just the general arguiments you see some of the ***** posting)
Its not unknown for blizzard to change their minds however after blizzcon im pretty sure they are set on the path for this next expansion.
Cutting edge raiding will now be 20mans, you can cry about it from now till launch but i doubt thats gonna change.
The fact that you and I are coming from different perspective just sorta shows the problem blizzard have trying to please people.
For you its the worst decision they could have made, for others it will be a good decision.
Guilds have had to adapt to changes before, and no doubt they will again. Thats the only thing we can guarantee from all this
so were at the same point as we started, you either accept it or gather your issues and make them clear to the devs in whatever form you can. Im sure theres a lot of people trying petitions or giving decent alternatives to the problem blizzard seeing with the raiding.
Constructive feedback with solutions is what they want, people moaning like spoilt little brats isnt gonna get the argument anywhere. (im not implying thats you by the way, just the general arguiments you see some of the ***** posting)
Its not unknown for blizzard to change their minds however after blizzcon im pretty sure they are set on the path for this next expansion.
Cutting edge raiding will now be 20mans, you can cry about it from now till launch but i doubt thats gonna change.
The fact that you and I are coming from different perspective just sorta shows the problem blizzard have trying to please people.
For you its the worst decision they could have made, for others it will be a good decision.
Guilds have had to adapt to changes before, and no doubt they will again. Thats the only thing we can guarantee from all this