Would english teams win as much without foreign players?

put it this way, the premier league would likely not survive without foreigners, or at least be boring.

the plus side if all/majority of the foreign players left, England might actually win something in the national team.

most people like the premier league because the foreign players bring flair and skill etc to the game, as crap as it is to say the league would be boring without foreigners. Having said that, I would prefer a boring league with english players, and english having a better growth system then as it is now, loads of foreigners and crap national team.
 
the plus side if all/majority of the foreign players left, England might actually win something in the national team.

History does not agree.

One win in the World Cup that was achieved on home soil is the best achievement in that competition.

One Euro semi final achieved on home soil is the best achievement in that competition.

No World Cup qualification in the 70s despite no foreign players in the league.

Perhaps England needs travel pills rather than no foreigners!!!
 
History does not agree.

One win in the World Cup that was achieved on home soil is the best achievement in that competition.!

'66 was so long ago though, you telling me the English team has been good in the last 5-10 years or so? The English team in the 90's was good but still not world beaters, now it is full off overrated, ego going money making losers, with the odd exceptions.
 
'66 was so long ago though, you telling me the English team has been good in the last 5-10 years or so? The English team in the 90's was good but still not world beaters, now it is full off overrated, ego going money making losers, with the odd exceptions.

No, im telling you that, as per the topic, England were never actually THAT good whether there were foreign players in the league or not.

The concept of ego and money doesnt stand up either. Is the Spanish squad full of shy retiring types on minimum wage who are only playing for the love of the game? There may be a mentality issue with England but ALL footballers at the highest level are in the same bracket and it doesnt seem to bother those playing for other national teams. Ronaldo earns a crazy amount of cash and isnt afraid of a camera or two yet he still bangs in 40 goals a season regardless.
 
No, im telling you that, as per the topic, England were never actually THAT good whether there were foreign players in the league or not.

The concept of ego and money doesnt stand up either. Is the Spanish squad full of shy retiring types on minimum wage who are only playing for the love of the game? There may be a mentality issue with England but ALL footballers at the highest level are in the same bracket and it doesnt seem to bother those playing for other national teams. Ronaldo earns a crazy amount of cash and isnt afraid of a camera or two yet he still bangs in 40 goals a season regardless.

I tend to agree. England were never "that" good, remember there were only something like 16 teams in '66 and the sides that tried to play football were basically kicked out.

'66 set the mentality that ugly football will win. A problem that has plagued English football since, and is now so deep rooted it's going to be very hard to change.

Also, in regards to the ego's and money, again, kind of agree to an extent. I think the problem with many English players in their unwillingness to come together as a unit and make sacrifices, the media also play a massive role in the underachievement and unfair expectations expected of players.
 
I tend to agree. England were never "that" good, remember there were only something like 16 teams in '66 and the sides that tried to play football were basically kicked out.

'66 set the mentality that ugly football will win. A problem that has plagued English football since, and is now so deep rooted it's going to be very hard to change.

Also, in regards to the ego's and money, again, kind of agree to an extent. I think the problem with many English players in their unwillingness to come together as a unit and make sacrifices, the media also play a massive role in the underachievement and unfair expectations expected of players.



I agree.

The bit in bold tends to annoy me a little (im actually Scottish but im not anti -England at all).

David Beckham knocked his pan out playing 12 months of the year just to be considered for England and people said "Look at him still trying to hog the limelight, he should retire gracefully".

Paul Scholes retired from England and he got "Disgusting! turning his back on his country!! Shame on him!!"

Rooney crashing about teams in the WC qualifying campaign when England were winning games - "Look at the passion, the boy would play for nothing, he loves football"

Rooney crashing about during the WC when England were losing "Look at that thug, a disgrace to the badge. Crap player, ego maniac, too big for his boots - drop him for ever".

Footballers really cant win and it all depends on who the media like at any given time.
 
The issue a lot of people are overlooking here is not if teams would win as much with English players The question should be if we had enough good coaches and enough facilities, would English teams need to loan as many African/French/Spanish players as they do ?

Of course you can go into the argument about their being more qualified coaches per capita compared to here. You would be a fool to argue otherwise.

The problem for me is two fold

Long Term

Nowhere near enough resource being pumped into small sided or Junior football. I am sure a few regulars to Football Stadium know I am a qualified coach. Yet can I further myself ??? No. !!!!!. If I want to progress then I need to take a weeks holiday as all the level 2(FA) and level 3(UEFA) have o be done over the week. Monday to Friday. So if I dont take paid leave then I cant do further coaching badges/. 2 Years ago the exact very same course used to be done over the weekend and at night. English football is heading for a drought in qualified and developing coaches which will have an impact on the National game

Short Term
Are our players good enough ??? The history books suggest otherwise. Our problem we have is not how good 'Technically' our players are but more about how intelligent our players are at the highest level.

The OP Should not be enough good foreign Players, it should be if our youth system is good enough ?
 
Firstly, its proven, its fact, in every single sport, every single work place, everywhere, you play or work with BETTER PEOPLE/players/accountants/anything you get better.

Take one english player, he trains with Dag and Red bridge, or Real Madrid, where will he become his best.

Reducing the quality of the EPL will never, ever, in a million years increase the quality of English players, every single piece of quantitative evidence proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt that English players would get worse if they train with and play against worse players week in week out.

Take Utd for example, the quality in the EPL has gone down drastically, Utd are the worst team ever to win a title, yet they still won it. You only have to be a tiny, miniscule amount better than the next best team to win. Quality of opposition decreases, quality of the champions decreases, thats what happens.

Remove 50% of the players in the league due to being foreign and every single player in the league will get worse.

As for England, biggest problem with the national team is never, in donkeys years, ever hiring a manager with INTERNATIONAL experience. Capello played in one of the worst Italian teams ever, who were widely ridiculed, and crumbled in the same way England did, coincidence? No, thats his experience, he doesn't know what makes a winning international team, why did Dunga, and Maradonna, with vastly inferior "managing" experience do far better? Because both have been part of successful international teams, they know what it takes, they know what players are needed, the mentality and the way to play.

England's quality of players coupled with either a vastly experienced international manager like Hiddink, or an ex player who has actually done well with an international team is the way forward.

In terms of training/youth/coaching this country is a joke, Soccer AM really shows how bad it is, the soccer skills school/competition, I forget what its called.

English kids thinks keepie uppies and tricks = great technical football, thats where we fail. We think the dutch/Spanish are great at technical football and think tricks are technical. Gerrard on Joe Cole , something along the lines of, "he's as good as Messi, what he can do in training, he can do things with a GOLF BALL that Messi can do with a football" sums it up for me, who cares what tricks he can do, under no pressure, with the wrong damn ball, his problem is in a match providing a useful cross or pass under pressure when it counts. Being able to catch the ball in your neck then hold it while you do a press up really doesn't come handy in a football match.

English kids and too many coaches, parents, think technical = tricks and Cruyff turns. Spain, Portugal, Holland, France think technical abilities mean, perfect tackling, perfect passing, good vision, good crossing, good dribbling.

For every one of Ronaldo's tricks, its the simple stuff he does better than almost everyone else. IF English players spent more time learning to be GOOD rather than FLASHY, we'd have much better English players on the whole, however our best 15-20 are a match for just about anyone in the world anyway. The likes of Messi are great footballers and would be realistically no matter where they were trained. England the team's problem is managerial, English players problems in general are training to be good at the wrong things.
 
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No it doesn't, but it's not difficult to work out what he means by reading the post.

what does he mean exactly?

If there were no over seas players in prem then nobody would have them, and everyone can't always lose and every game resulting in a draw is extremely unlikely then it would be someone from the UK banging the goals in as the level of quality overal would be lower.

So what does he mean exactly?

UK teams competing more effectively in Europe? Anyone got stats for European cup wins increasing to coincide with the influx of foreign players?
 
Most arguments against foreign players in the PL stems out of a misguided fear that they are ruining our national team.

Ill raise them this point -
Between 66 and the 'foreign player boom' somewhere in the 90's, name me one achievement of note our International sides managed?

That dealt with ..

The biggest problem in our country is the coaching style at academy and lower league level.
Since our academy was 'fixed' we have tons of promasing young players coming through, hell even Spearing who looked completely out of place a few years ago is now able to drop in and do a good job when required!
Compare that to other teams academy (cough .. Everton for example), their youth side is built to 'win' at that level, overly physical and athletic players who are blessed with pace, strength and not a lot else..
Had we built a team similar then we would have probably won our U18 league group instead of them, but then we wouldn't have any players coming through most likely so what would we rather have.

Same problem at lower leagues, it makes exciting football sure, and its effective, but the players down there are playing a different kind of game to the best teams in the PL, and hell even some of the weaker PL teams!


Compare that to Spain or Germany, where pretty much every team, at every level and their youth setups are coached to play football 'the proper way' and getting good home grown / national talent through to the top league or international team is a lot easier to do.
 
what does he mean exactly?

If there were no over seas players in prem then nobody would have them, and everyone can't always lose and every game resulting in a draw is extremely unlikely then it would be someone from the UK banging the goals in as the level of quality overal would be lower.

So what does he mean exactly?

UK teams competing more effectively in Europe? Anyone got stats for European cup wins increasing to coincide with the influx of foreign players?

As Weebull pointed out above it's poorly worded.

But my understanding of it is essentially whether the relatively recent influx of foreigners into the EPL has hampered the number of able English players produced.

Edit - or erm, just go with how the discussion has flowed. :p
 
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It is all down to coaching and the kind of lump it long lower league morons that we dont see decent young players.

I played with a lad many years ago (I've told this story before on here), he was a truly gifted player, two footed, lightning quick, sublime skill, proper skill, not show boating, he knew when to deploy it, could finish, good in the air, and could mix it up when he needed to.

Went for trials at Lincoln City, got rejected, not bulky enough, went for trails at forest, got rejected, not bulky enough.

I remember when I took my lad to to his football training, there was a little lad there called Ryan, smaller than all the other lads (this is at 9 years old), but he was amazing, nothing will ever come of his skill though, because he is short.
 
It is all down to coaching and the kind of lump it long lower league morons that we dont see decent young players.

I played with a lad many years ago (I've told this story before on here), he was a truly gifted player, two footed, lightning quick, sublime skill, proper skill, not show boating, he knew when to deploy it, could finish, good in the air, and could mix it up when he needed to.

Went for trials at Lincoln City, got rejected, not bulky enough, went for trails at forest, got rejected, not bulky enough.

I remember when I took my lad to to his football training, there was a little lad there called Ryan, smaller than all the other lads (this is at 9 years old), but he was amazing, nothing will ever come of his skill though, because he is short.

Thats the problem in a nutshell really.

Think about this. If Messi was English would he have been rejected by the Lincoln Citys of this world for being too small? The sad fact is he probably would. There is something far wrong when clubs will pay a fortune for a Modric or Messi in their prime and not be worried about their size yet reject a youngster they could develop themselves for that very reason.
 
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