**XBOX ONE** Official Thread

Macro said:
I think the difference is likely to be Microsoft already do this on an enterprise scale with Azure allowing companies to extend out of their own datacentre to cloud computing when needed.

From the interview it mentioned the OS will have the logic in it to work out when a connection isn't available, then fall gracefully back and handle it without the game coming to a grinding halt. *shrug*

If the platform is to last 7 years like the last, this could be a really big deal in 4 years time when the in box console hardware is getting a bit of a pasting from new games, in particular with the expansion of good quality internet connections.

I think it's quite exciting to be honest, consoles just fundamentally doing the same thing but faster every few years isn't really interesting any more. If MS have managed to really be imaginative and introduce something in a way that could eventually be as fundamentally game changing as when we first got online multiplayer or live voice comms I'm all for it.

I'm sure there will be problems and I have no idea of the details but it could be one of those things we look back on in 5 years time and wonder how people ever used consoles without the massive processing power the cloud could bring to bare.

Interesting times any which way you look at it.
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Apologies for the self quote but found some more... I should read properly next time :)

Booty added that things like physics modeling, fluid dynamics, and cloth motion were all prime examples of effects that require a lot of up-front computation that could be handled in the cloud without adding any lag to the actual gameplay. And the server resources Microsoft is putting toward these calculations will be much greater than a local Xbox One could handle on its own. "A rule of thumb we like to use is that [for] every Xbox One available in your living room we’ll have three of those devices in the cloud available," he said.
 
I think Macro you need to colour your point that as soon as theres any user interaction then that gets pulled straight back to the console - when you consider it like that, the opportunities to offload and quality of how you would notice them while in game tend to diminish somewhat. I cant think of anything thats not latency dependent when it comes to user interaction...

EDIT: What intrigues me is how cloud and local computation might swap between each other or even more interesting how they could work together. For example, you see a stream which you then walk into until youve interacted with it (or got close to it) the fluid dynamics are offloaded to the cloud. Now as soon as you interact with it are all the those calculations brought back to local computation (so the XO does the fluid dynamics for the all of the visible stream) or say are only the ones right before and after your position are, while the remainder done by cloud? That local patch of computation obviously might need to be a bit larger to allow for the latency of cloud computing to bring back results for it to calculate from (initial local positions).

Its this inherent finesse that I think that needs to be unlocked within this idea of offloading to the cloud to really make it shine and indeed I think Kinect as a technology is still at a similar stage. Great ideas/techologies, just not well exceuted so far...

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
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Chris1712 said:
I'm happy enough with the pre-owned system if that is indeed how it works. It's the first step in an important journey to digital only, which most people want.
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I think if you actually asked a representative sample of people, most would say they don't want download-only. We will inevitably end up paying more for games as a result, I have no doubt of that.

People make the comparison to Steam, but Steam doesn't own the PC platform so they can't control it; the smartest thing they've done is let other retailers, publishers etc activate games on Steam so Steam itself becomes the dominant provider.

Sony and MS on the other hand, would probably like nothing more than to see the money that retailers and suppliers get for the sale of each game going into their own pockets instead. There's no motivation for them to be competitive, and the lack of a physical product means there's no stock that's cost money to manufacture, take up space, lose value etc. We'd all like to think that with retailers out of the picture, MS, Sony and the publishers would say "Now they're gone, we can finally sell you games cheaply!" but it wouldn't happen that way. Yes, they'd perhaps be more encouraged to reduce prices more than they do now on those services, but you're not going to be getting a new release for £30-35 like you can from a physical/online retailer.
 
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Shamikebab said:
Who would you rather make a cut, the publishers that have helped bring the game out or some third party like Game who have done nothing?
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Macro said:
If retail shops are making almost pure profit from the second time they've sold the same game doesn't it seem fair that the developers/publishers should get a share? It doesn't necessarily mean the price goes up, just that retailers profit a little less.
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Ford dont expect a cut from 2nd hand sales of cars
Samsung dont expect a cut from 2nd hand sales of tvs
EVGA dont expect a cut from 2nd hand sales of gfx cards
etc.

What they hope for is you like the product enough to buy new next time

If you were the retailer at XYZ games store would you be happy for some one to take your profits away from you after they have already been paid once for the item you are selling?
 
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I personally hope this whole second hand game fiasco produces another games market crash. Everybody involved from retailers to publishers are getting too greedy.
You have publishers who seem to think they should get a cut from second hand sales even though this doesn't happen in any other market. And then you have retailers who seem to think it's ok to charge £2 less for a used product than a new product.
Although you could argue it's all the publishers fault as, as far as i'm aware, retailers make very little profit from the sale of new games anyway.
 
macca672 said:
Ford dont expect a cut from 2nd hand sales of cars
Samsung dont expect a cut from 2nd hand sales of tvs
EVGA dont expect a cut from 2nd hand sales of gfx cards
etc.
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The comparison is not valid.

You can complete a 12 hour single player game in a few days and sell it on having got 100% of the content of the game and got most of your money back. A lot of people can all get this same experience with not an extra penny going to the people that made that experience. You can't do that with any of the other things mentioned.
 
Shamikebab said:
The comparison is not valid.

You can complete a 12 hour single player game in a few days and sell it on having got 100% of the content of the game and got most of your money back. A lot of people can all get this same experience with not an extra penny going to the people that made that experience. You can't do that with any of the other things mentioned.
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To play devils advocate consider other digital mediums as a comparison (Films and TV on DVDs and BDs)

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
Shamikebab said:
The comparison is not valid.

You can complete a 12 hour single player game in a few days and sell it on having got 100% of the content of the game and got most of your money back. A lot of people can all get this same experience with not an extra penny going to the people that made that experience. You can't do that with any of the other things mentioned.
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Fair enough, bad comparison

ps3ud0 said:
To play devils advocate consider other digital mediums as a comparison (Films and TV on DVDs and BDs)

ps3ud0 :cool:
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better example, thank you
 
ps3ud0 said:
I think Macro you need to colour your point that as soon as theres any user interaction then that gets pulled straight back to the console - when you consider it like that, the opportunities to offload and quality of how you would notice them while in game tend to diminish somewhat. I cant think of anything thats not latency dependent when it comes to user interaction...

EDIT: What intrigues me is how cloud and local computation might swap between each other or even more interesting how they could work together. For example, you see a stream which you then walk into until youve interacted with it (or got close to it) the fluid dynamics are offloaded to the cloud. Now as soon as you interact with it are all the those calculations brought back to local computation (so the XO does the fluid dynamics for the all of the visible stream) or say are only the ones right before and after your position are, while the remainder done by cloud? That local patch of computation obviously might need to be a bit larger to allow for the latency of cloud computing to bring back results for it to calculate from (initial local positions).

Its this inherent finesse that I think that needs to be unlocked within this idea of offloading to the cloud to really make it shine and indeed I think Kinect as a technology is still at a similar stage. Great ideas/techologies, just not well exceuted so far...

ps3ud0 :cool:
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Indeed, there will be a bunch of finesse needed to make this work well. I tend to think it has more potential in 3 or 4 years once the in box hardware is getting hammered and devs have had time to wrap their brains around how best to utilise 2 "virtual Xbox Ones" in the cloud. Perhaps AI behaviour could be another example with only the single AI you're interacting directly with at any time being driven by the local hardware?
 
ps3ud0 said:
To play devils advocate consider other digital mediums as a comparison (Films and TV on DVDs and BDs)

ps3ud0 :cool:
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Yeah there are other comparisons. Film and TV though you have them released at Cinema first so anyone that is waiting for a DVD/Blu ray is likely to be a collector rather than a consume and sell on (it's much easier to just use a rental service or cinema if you want that)

Really the best comparison I could think of is books. But then you don't get many people reading books as quickly as possible to then sell on, and the price difference is barely worth it. Plus with ebooks you could say they're trying to cut down on that too!
 
Shamikebab said:
Yeah there are other comparisons. Film and TV though you have them released at Cinema first so anyone that is waiting for a DVD/Blu ray is likely to be a collector rather than a consume and sell on (it's much easier to just use a rental service or cinema if you want that)

Really the best comparison I could think of is books. But then you don't get many people reading books as quickly as possible to then sell on, and the price difference is barely worth it. Plus with ebooks you could say they're trying to cut down on that too!
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Just to aid my clarity, surely its an aside to worry about Cinema consumption, essentially all we are comparing is the ability to purchase something like a game new and deliver it second hand in the exact state it was in when originally purchased?

EDIT: I really should do some revision :/

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
Shamikebab said:
The comparison is not valid.

You can complete a 12 hour single player game in a few days and sell it on having got 100% of the content of the game and got most of your money back. A lot of people can all get this same experience with not an extra penny going to the people that made that experience. You can't do that with any of the other things mentioned.
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I imagine MS see secondhand sales in the same light as piracy. Whether you buy a game secondhand or download it for free off the internet, you're not supporting the creators.
 
I think I'll really be looking at what Sony does with this second hand games malarky. I want to buy an xbox one but if I cant even lend my brother a game I bought or sell it on without jumping through hoops and the PS4 offers something like how it is now then it's certainly going to be a mark against xbox.

Another thing is Live. If PS4 offers a similar service for free then its another reason to jump ship.

I dont know if these things have been revealed by MS yet but Its certainly going to be a very interesting E3 thats for sure. I truly hope we see some kick arse games on both systems. I don't one to "win" the console war I want them to both be excellent in their own ways so I "need" to buy both.. at least eventually! :)
 
Dannyb01y said:
I think I'll really be looking at what Sony does with this second hand games malarky. I want to buy an xbox one but if I cant even lend my brother a game I bought or sell it on without jumping through hoops and the PS4 offers something like how it is now then it's certainly going to be a mark against xbox.

Another thing is Live. If PS4 offers a similar service for free then its another reason to jump ship.

I dont know if these things have been revealed by MS yet but Its certainly going to be a very interesting E3 thats for sure. I truly hope we see some kick arse games on both systems. I don't one to "win" the console war I want them to both be excellent in their own ways so I "need" to buy both.. at least eventually! :)
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Pretty much the same, I was always going to buy the ps4 first as I love the Sony ips. I honestly would love for MS to give me a bloody good reason to buy the xbox one. Yeah I might pick it up a year or two later but I'd love to see some amazing exclusives.
 
The thing that bugs me about this pre-owned stuff (if it's true, of course) is that if I buy a game, and I no longer want it, I have 2 options. Either sell it to a specific game shop at any price they set, or... let it gather dust. I can't sell it privately, I can't lend it to someone. I couldn't even give it away if I wanted to.
 
Moothead2 said:
That...can't be true...

So they're marketing it as a living room style console yet if you have too many people in your living room, say a party for example, it charges you extra? Hah.
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Thats got to be bull. Although I've already got a work around method planned.

Step 1. Buy Box large enough for humans

Step 2. Cut eye holes.
 
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