I think this is simply a case of personal preference. Some people prefer their sound to be as "pure" as possible, some people like effects etc. otherwise such things wouldn't exist I guess. When it comes to personal preference there is no right or wrong. Unless you like the sound of iBuds. Or Skullcandies.
XFI vs Xonar : WTF?
- Thread starter FatRakoon
- Start date
Soldato
With well coded drivers and good circuit design, the answer is yes. I was sceptical and always thought PCI was better, but since I bought an 0404 USB, I was blown away how good it sounds. The headphone amp isn't bad either... Balanced in/out is nice too for connection to prosound gear.
If you can, see if you can borrow or hire a 0404 USB, with good speakers and amplification, you'll get very good results.
In fact the only downside is that I cannot hook it up to my Mac, but E-mu is owned by Creative, so I'm sure OSX drivers would be a big ask.
DO I ???????????
OH!!!!
LOL
I disagree. I see where you are coming from I truly do, but I alos feel that you are looking back on a card that for the time, was good, but to compare it with a current card... Is just wrong. Even with hardware thats well suited to the TBSC / SLSF there is just too much difference.
As a similar but different example, I remember years ago, having an MT100 and there was a sound called Dr Solo and I fell in love with it. More recently I wanted that sound again and I bought an MT32 but I realised that the sound was not as good as I remembered... I feel that maybe the TBSC is your MT32?
I doubt it. Not impossible but highly unlikely.
Very possible yes.
I will admit that all creative cards are dull and lifeless without adjustments in their EQ and the Crysaliser on the XFI cards is a definite boost. but once you do adjust them to suit your gear / prefs they reall shine through.
With well coded drivers and good circuit design, the answer is yes. I was sceptical and always thought PCI was better, but since I bought an 0404 USB, I was blown away how good it sounds. The headphone amp isn't bad either... Balanced in/out is nice too for connection to prosound gear.
If you can, see if you can borrow or hire a 0404 USB, with good speakers and amplification, you'll get very good results.
In fact the only downside is that I cannot hook it up to my Mac, but E-mu is owned by Creative, so I'm sure OSX drivers would be a big ask.
Just today I had a delivery of a really old Hercules Game theatre card & Box.
I reallyt dont know why I bought it other than its just one of those things that I waste money on to stop the taxman getting it I suppose?
Anyway its using the same chip as the TBSC is it not?
I have yet to play with it, and I am unsure whether I can drive it anyway???
I dont have any 32Bit O/S installed on any PC
Should be a laugh though
On to the USB idea - I will have a look into it and yes... I will need to have a trial before I can do anythign more.
Man of Honour
That's exactly what I mean, the feature effects on the Xfi, they're just that and a ssuch you need to tweak them to suit your equipment - which you've done.
Now then, the XFi has the 3 "modes" and so when gaming you'd have to switch to gaming to get the best out of it, recording/music etc likewise in their modes. I wasn't a fan of this as it means a change in sound colour and a change in EQ as well.
I guess I'm more of a purist, I don't like having to use EQ changes to suit the equipment, for me the sound should be neutral but have excellent clarity and depth without having to adjust software settings - something the Xonar does out of the box and something the SC did as well.
Simply install soundcard, leave on defaults and switch tone defeat settings on the amp and enjoy excellent sound in any situation.
Crystaliser just added too much harshness to the high end in my music, I listen to a wide genre of music and certain upbeat and electronic music sounded too harsh and that's something since my speakers/headphones are not known for being harsh!
Now then, the XFi has the 3 "modes" and so when gaming you'd have to switch to gaming to get the best out of it, recording/music etc likewise in their modes. I wasn't a fan of this as it means a change in sound colour and a change in EQ as well.
I guess I'm more of a purist, I don't like having to use EQ changes to suit the equipment, for me the sound should be neutral but have excellent clarity and depth without having to adjust software settings - something the Xonar does out of the box and something the SC did as well.
Simply install soundcard, leave on defaults and switch tone defeat settings on the amp and enjoy excellent sound in any situation.
Crystaliser just added too much harshness to the high end in my music, I listen to a wide genre of music and certain upbeat and electronic music sounded too harsh and that's something since my speakers/headphones are not known for being harsh!
Soldato
My sound is about the only thing in my machine thats remained for years.
Main use is Music really, I can probably confidently say I play music more than I game, not that I don't game a lot, I do but I play a lot of music as well!
Speakers are Z5500's so have a digital input
Soldato
DAC's (and ADC's) have come a long way over the years. It's debatable weather the latest batch of 32-bit DAC's sound any better than a good 24-bit DAC... I have no clue what DAC the Hercules card uses however, but if you look at the specs it should be in there.
The 0404usb uses the AK4396 chip, which is a nice DAC. Google 'AK4396' if you want other opinions. I'm planning to upgrade my Behringer DCX2496 with AK4396's also, with only a single coupling capacitor instead of the op-amp based output stage which isn't exactly ideal for me...
I was lucky enough to pick up my 0404usb for around £80, meaning that if I didn't like it, I could probably sell it for more than I paid for it... You may not be so lucky, but it's a shame there isn't a way things like soundcards can't always be as easily hired out as easily as PA/prosound gear, for example.
I went from an EMU 0404 PCI to the Xonar essence STX and playing lossless through Adam A7's it certainly sounds better to me. It also drives headphones very well as a bonus.
The problem is that it is all so subjective by nature.
Most people would benefit more by treating their listening space than by upgrading their kit in my opinion.
The problem is that it is all so subjective by nature.
Most people would benefit more by treating their listening space than by upgrading their kit in my opinion.
Soldato
Man of Honour
Videologic Sonic Fury = Santa Cruz 
Yes, the VLSF an the TBSC as I have mentioned once or twice LOL
Both these a cards are identical. They give out a nice warm sound but games struggle wehen you heard more than one bullet, however they really do try to play environmental audio
Both these a cards are identical. They give out a nice warm sound but games struggle wehen you heard more than one bullet, however they really do try to play environmental audio
Man of Honour
I have not used the SC since Vista came out so have no idea how it handles modern games but back in the day it played games perfectly well, I recall the ambience of Max Payne and the positioning in Counter Strike to be precise and crisp.
It doesnt.
Back in the day... Thgat a fair few years ago now though.
Yes, as I have said, it was great for a lot of environmental stuff, my own experience as I recall was things like shooting at your enemies and then running through a tunnel and the sound of the bullets ricocheting and the guns shots etc all changed as you ran through the tunnel and then back out and it was fantastic...
But, with other explosions / bullets / noises going on, you rarely got this effect because the card simply could not handle it.
UnReal Tournament was the game that killed off the TBSC as a gaming card for me... The SBLIVE was more than enough to handle everything it was given and the TBSC simply could not come even close to pretending.
Man of Honour
UT was an EAX game though, back then EAX emulation was primitive at best and it's only since the Xonar cards that EAX emulation provided an output that was worthy enough to call decent.
I guess not too much means less than £100? So I am guessing you are a gamer, or at least do play games, hence the X-Fi Gamer card. Do you use the amp and Mission's for gaming? Or do you use headphones?
To be honest, there is no real upgrade below £100. You could get a Xonar, but the D2X doesn't offer much more compared to the DX/D1, unless you either have need for DTS, record from a digital source or create music.
M-Audio's 2496 would offer better sound musically, but it offers no positional sound what so ever, so is rather limited from a gaming point of view.
Tbh, only something like Auzentech Forte or Asus Xonar Essence cards will offer significant upgrade whilst still retaining features for gaming.
Ok, been twiddling about again. Playing a few tracks and having all EQ set totally flat, then doing minor EQ Adjustments.
I am taking back a lot of what I said about these cards... I say a lot but not all.
The XFI, like all creative cards is dull and lifeless withotu EQ... I have always known that and I am sure that I have already sais it even in these very posts in this thread, but I have now actually forced myself to listen to a few tracks and actualyl compare the music to the Xonar ( And the TBSC funkily enough - and why not? )
Yeah, ok, its clear the Xonar is the winner on that score. In a cool kind of way the TBSC is still a lovely warm sounding card, but its still lacking towards the higher end of the scale and the XFI is definitely far ahead of it. But thats not to say the TBSC is bad... I have never said that... Not for music anyway because I do like the TBSC / VLSF cards.
I feel thouhg that, for my tastes, I cannot keep a card set to a flat EQ... I cannot.
I have to some adjustments. In a very basic EQ, I suppose on a scale of 1 to 5, Lo would need to be at a 4, Mid a 3 and hi a 5. On a complex EQ it would I suppose look like a ****-eyed smile, pulling the Lo up a little and the hi up a lot.
Now, this puts me into a situation... Which is better, the XFI or the Xonar?
Well, speakers play a huge role dont they? The Altec Lansing 955s are in the living room because I personally feel that they are better sounding than the Z5500's and so, given that the EQ range on the XFI goes far further than it does on the Xonar, I still say that for me, the XFI is a better sounding card.
So, I am going to keep the XFI and the Altec Lansing 955s in the living room and the Xonar on the Logitechs in the LAN room.
Is this the best option? probably not, but I feel that it is.
I am taking back a lot of what I said about these cards... I say a lot but not all.
The XFI, like all creative cards is dull and lifeless withotu EQ... I have always known that and I am sure that I have already sais it even in these very posts in this thread, but I have now actually forced myself to listen to a few tracks and actualyl compare the music to the Xonar ( And the TBSC funkily enough - and why not? )
Yeah, ok, its clear the Xonar is the winner on that score. In a cool kind of way the TBSC is still a lovely warm sounding card, but its still lacking towards the higher end of the scale and the XFI is definitely far ahead of it. But thats not to say the TBSC is bad... I have never said that... Not for music anyway because I do like the TBSC / VLSF cards.
I feel thouhg that, for my tastes, I cannot keep a card set to a flat EQ... I cannot.
I have to some adjustments. In a very basic EQ, I suppose on a scale of 1 to 5, Lo would need to be at a 4, Mid a 3 and hi a 5. On a complex EQ it would I suppose look like a ****-eyed smile, pulling the Lo up a little and the hi up a lot.
Now, this puts me into a situation... Which is better, the XFI or the Xonar?
Well, speakers play a huge role dont they? The Altec Lansing 955s are in the living room because I personally feel that they are better sounding than the Z5500's and so, given that the EQ range on the XFI goes far further than it does on the Xonar, I still say that for me, the XFI is a better sounding card.
So, I am going to keep the XFI and the Altec Lansing 955s in the living room and the Xonar on the Logitechs in the LAN room.
Is this the best option? probably not, but I feel that it is.
Man of Honour
Have you tried the Xonar on non PC speakers at all? I cannot find any info on the AL 955s you mention but you really should hook up a stereo amp with a decent interconnect connected to some non PC speakers - the Xonar is right at home in a setup like that
Have you tried the Xonar on non PC speakers at all? I cannot find any info on the AL 955s you mention but you really should hook up a stereo amp with a decent interconnect connected to some non PC speakers - the Xonar is right at home in a setup like that
Yes, in my music room ( listen to me FFS! - its a converted attic, but lets pretend eh? ) I have a choice of chevin Q6 amp connected to Yamaha ClubV speakers, or a pair of Adam P22 powered Monitors. Both those setups are infinitely superior to a home HiFi.
When I say home HiFi, I do of course mean one of thiose nasty all in one stereo unit things that so many people think are HiFi.
However, when used all the time, they will be connected to a set of Logitech Z5500 speakers.
The Altec Lansing 995 - I know I keep putting in 955 but its 995
NINE - NINE - FIVE
Only Dell supplied them, and they have no Volume or headphone sockets etc so they can be limiting and the VOL is done through my keyboard and the Headphones are done through a live drive... Another reason why I feel that I need a creative drive bay in my Living room PC.
I have done a few posts recently about drive bay units but I have not founf one with the same functions as the Creative ones on the A2ZS and the Fatal1ty that ?I could use with the Xonar... Hell if you check back, I also wanted to use one with the Turtle beach not that long ago.