How foolish of you.
1 - It DOES allow you to turn faster.
2 - It allows you to use the speed of at least a controllers maximum turning speed while having more accuracy than is possible even at the minimum speed setting on a pad.
XIM3 round the corner (mouse and keyboard support)
- Thread starter Zensuji
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How foolish of you.
1 - It DOES allow you to turn faster.
2 - It allows you to use the speed of at least a controllers maximum turning speed while having more accuracy than is possible even at the minimum speed setting on a pad.
Soldato
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I think what he means is that say on a cod game level 10 is the max turn speed on a pad this will be true of the mouse also and will govern them both in the same way as the game sees the Xim as a pad, BUT you are correct also Kreeee as it will be easier to use level 10 accuracy with a mouse over a pad + the sticky aim is actually increased slightly with each turn speed increase on certain games.
How delicious it is that I should have someone who obviously does not understand how the XIMs function inform me that I am wrong on the matter. Refer to the second portion of this post. I'd rather not have to explain the same thing in different wording for your benefit.
I actually do own multiple alternate controller adapters, a Revision-B XIM2 not being the exception. I have also shaved down several Duke sticks which were fitted in to a Xbox 360 controller, an act done for the sole purpose of allowing the joystick to hit the maximum range along both axes simultaneously, though I can't honestly say that I notice any difference from how the controller behaved pre-modification, except for maybe when running diagonally with a heavy weapon in Halo 3. As far as signal range, both a mouse via XIM and the original thumbstick are held within the confines of four signal intensities of 0-255 for both vertical and horizontal directions in which the joystick can travel, and the normal Microsoft controller can hit the full 255 on either axis when in a fully extended vertical or horizontal position. Without modification, the gamepad is unable to hit a full 255 along both axes, but whether or not that is short of the maximum speed allowed in a game is decided by that game and not the total range of the joystick. The XIMs can not override settings locked by the software, and if the controller can not normally reach the extremities of such sensitivities, then I will blame game and peripheral design before I blame the people who set out to rectify this problem of their own accord, as one need not rely on a XIM to negate this effect.
Your argument that a mouse operating through a XIM somehow turns the player faster than a game normally allows with the thumbstick is going to fall flat on its face no matter how many times you regurgitate it on to this thread. By the time the signal from a XIM or a normal gamepad reach the Xbox, they are the same. The XIM is the equivalent of manipulating the right joystick with a twig taped to your thumb instead of using the thumb itself. Nothing about the game changes. All that is changing is how the player interacts with the controller.
Contrary to what one might think, sticky aim is a nuisance to a mouse operating through the XIM. The reason why computer mice work so well for shooters is because the player is more able to form muscle memory based on an understanding that X distance moved on mouse surface and how it equates to X degree of a turn in-game. Provided the player isn't moving the mouse faster than it can register speeds, this behavior is always consistent. With the mouse mapped to the analog axes of a joystick however, the degree of a turn becomes based off the speed of movement and the duration of movement. This more closely resembles the normal behavior of the joystick's signal intensity (or tilt) and the duration the tilt is held than it does the behavior of a natively supported mouse. As such, the sudden alteration of turn sensitivity that often accompanies the "sticky" reticule effect causes more inconsistency than it does benefit to a player trying to line up a shot on an opponent.
The ability to better handle a higher sensitivity with a XIM-enabled mouse is more dependent on the player's ability with the device. Someone who can manipulate a joystick used for aiming perfectly is going to be just as competent as someone who can perfectly operate a mouse mapped to that joystick's range of input. Any differences in behavior would be largely in the range of physical operation. An example being how one might be able to alternate between turning and standstill with a mouse more easily because it involves moving their arm, while centering and then tilting a small joystick with the thumb could be more demanding of a person's dexterity.
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Soldato
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What? Nobody is saying you gain speed out of nowhere.
Obviously you don't gain any speed that can theoretically be used on a pad. Have you ever played a pad on full sensitivity though? Any amount of accuracy goes out the window. You don't loose this accuracy using an adapter. Ergo, the adapter allows a player to turn faster because they can utilise the higher sensitivity settings.
While turn speeds do increase, the range of the joystick remains the same. How well a player can move within that range or maintain a single position is determined by their ability to physically operate the gamepad. The argument that the XIM better enables accuracy within this range because it allows the player to spread the same values out over a wider area of motion could also be employed against larger joysticks or racing wheels, as this is all that they effectively do to change the level of user interaction with the input device. EDIT: At a level concerning signal alone, that is. I am well aware of the differences between a wheel and a joystick when concerning form and function.
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The XIM's allow you to go from 0 to max turning speed (for arguments sake, let's use the common value 255) without having to go through every other number between 0 and 255 like you do with a stick.
This makes a massive difference in left sweeps and then right sweeps, with the XIM simply going -255,0,255 as its output while the pad goes through every number (or a large sub set) in between, and that's excluding the physical time it takes to make the movement on the stick compared to the twitch direction change of a mouse.
Therefore what can be done on a XIM cannot physically be done on a pad.
This makes a massive difference in left sweeps and then right sweeps, with the XIM simply going -255,0,255 as its output while the pad goes through every number (or a large sub set) in between, and that's excluding the physical time it takes to make the movement on the stick compared to the twitch direction change of a mouse.
Therefore what can be done on a XIM cannot physically be done on a pad.
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Incorrect. The XIM software (or rather the Smart profiles that are going to be widely used with the XIM3) attempts to scale input based on mouse speed to a linear progression of in-game turn rate. Doing this allows the user to better gauge turns beforehand and as they are executed, moving us back toward the more comfortable learning curve of a mouse, though still being unable to fully escape the behavior of a joystick. But, for argument's sake, let's say I do set my XIM config's mouse sensitivity to 65534 and the mouse does immediately scale to the full range of the joystick with the slightest movement. What happens then is the same thing that would happen if your joystick were replaced with four buttons that yielded the maximum input values for turning. Fine control goes right out the window, and minute movements that would be necessary for even general aiming would be impossible to perform.
So while your scenario is possible with the hardware, it would also destroy the point of "playing" any game with the device, making the task unreasonably difficult, if not impossible.
Soldato
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XIM3 gives a huge unfair advantage over the 360 pad, it doesnt matter how much technobabble is spouted, it's still true. It unevens the playing fields, its the same as a trainer, an aim bot, or just general cheating. It will make you look elite, but as we all know, people who use trainers and aimbots are far from that, So i'll happily throw the XIM3 people into the same category.
The mouse itself still has to has to accelerate before reaching any speed, just as one will have to move the joystick from a neutral position before it has reached the proper scale of input. Between null and that final speed are the levels of signal that you are concerned over. Also worth noting, with most games if you do flick your wrist you won't pull an instant 180-degree turn unless the same could be done by flicking the thumbstick in a similar manner. What will typically happen is the intensity will hit the cutoff point and the motion won't turn you any more than would a slower movement lasting the same amount of time, while still using up more of the available surface area for the mouse. Joysticks don't run in to this problem, being able to put out a constant signal without need for mousing area.
Well, at least you announce your being secure within a sphere of ignorance. Know then that I also have no intention of giving up my position that the customer should have the ability to play with whatever input they prefer, regardless of Microsoft's concern for market control. However, I prefer to base my argument on facts and not the "I believe this, therefore it must be so" approach. I suppose now that you're done casting final judgment on third-party controllers, you can move on to surround sound, low-latency HDTVs, and housing proximity to LIVE matchmaking servers.
For future reference: Unless recently altered, the LIVE user agreements never address the modification of peripheral hardware completely enough to label the XIMs as unauthorized devices. So while you are perfectly free to label as cheaters those people who happen to use a mouse because they lost a thumb or two and could not play otherwise, the label is not one currently recognized by the service you intend to defend.
Soldato
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A ridiculous argument.
This isn't exercising your right as a consumer to do what you want with the product you've paid for. You want an advantage over people and are willing to pay for it, just because you'd get bummed if you tried with a pad.
You seem to be continually dodging round the issue at hand here by using numbers and mumbo jumbo.
The XIM offers an unfair control advantage over a pad. Fact.
People are paying to get this advantage over pad players, to make themselves look better.
I use an input device attached to a PC attached to a microcontroller to manipulate a wired Xbox 360 gamepad. The experience in not unlike having an associate play for you by proxy, though without the extra person and far more efficient. All you're getting.
For a fact, your point is rather subjective, considering a XIM can play host for many more devices than simply a mouse, and not everyone can use each device with an equal level of proficiency. Likewise, you are overly assumptive of people's reasons for buying a XIM. Some may buy it in order to use a mouse. Some may buy it so that they can avoid using the gamepad. Some may buy it to use any of the joysticks, wheels, yokes, head-tracking gear, drum sets, keypads or other assorted peripherals they might own. Some may buy it for the increase in ability it could facilitate if they can use any one of such devices better than a gamepad. Some may even buy it expecting to immediately become godlike in whatever game they play only to be thoroughly disappointed by the fact that this isn't the equivalent of native mouse support. It may get close with certain games and be the best adapter out there in terms of performance but the limits that it and every other adapter are locked to ensure that there will always be the possibility for standard gamepad users to match the ability of anyone using a XIM-enabled input.
Your fact simply isn't factual. Please try again.
So you hax?
Were it the only means I had of enjoying a game, I might. Good thing I needn't go that far. I wouldn't know where to start.
So essentially you're willing to ruin the enjoyment others have from a game if it means increasing your own? Guess that adds up since you're using a XIM. By that i mean gaining an advantage (whatever way you twist it, it is still that; an advantage) over others in order to improve your own enjoyment, thus degrading theirs (as they're playing with an artificial handicap).
yeah, this is pretty much my experience of playing FPS games with XIM-2.
And im only average with a mouse/KB.
Except with console game FPS's "Sticky aiming" its really not difficult at all.
I Dont like playing baseball with a smaller bat, i should be allowed to play it with a tennis-racket instead.
All these titles are available on the PC, yet a huge amount of people seem to want to play the console version with superior PC input, i wonder why that is? Surely has nothing to do with the fact the vast majority are completely crap at the game on the PC, so the only way to get 'fun' out of a title is to use an unfair advantage and beat down on a load of pad players?
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Soldato
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May I ask a question?
Are you related in any way to the sales, design or production of the XIM?
You've created a brand new account here just to jump into this thread, and you seem to hark on about how good the XIM as if you've got some kind of sales pitch in mind, whilst skirting round the issues people are trying to discuss.
I am aware that the XIM can be used for more than Keyboard and mice, but this thread has been mostly discussing the issue of keyboard and mice as an advantage in FPS games online. I'm sure nobody here really cares about someone using it to configure a wheel that isn't supported.
And you can claim all you want that my post wasn't factual. But we all know that there are people buying an XIM to enable keyboard and mouse in online play against pad players.
Whether these people just can't adapt to a pad, or they can use one but just want an extra edge, they're still after an advantage against people out to play the game as it was intended with a pad.
Or are you really trying to claim that there is zero advantage to using a mouse and keyboard over a pad? If you don't want to take my word for it, I'm pretty sure there's been studies proving otherwise.
Well put. It's like turning up to a banger race in a sports car.
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