XIM3 round the corner (mouse and keyboard support)

orderoftheflame said:
What? :confused: How exactly does his point not stand? His point is that the advantage is likely to be more noticeable in other types of FPS. Why do we have to limit this discussion to COD and halo? Or are we only allowed to discuss the most popular games? :rolleyes:
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Xim is an Xbox adaptor Quake 3 is not on the xbox.......... there is no point in comparing anything to a non XBL game pointless imo and the Xim is going to be used in the most popular of games carry on if you want but tbh its pointless in not discussing anything but the most popular games which are atm Bops and MW2 in slot 1 and 2 on XBL.

Why even mention Quake 3 as I would never even dream of using a pad on that game as I would have my backside handed to me over and over pointless discussion.

You give me a Xim to play MW2 with and I reckon I would be at a disadvantage having to re learn to use a M+K on that game all over again.

I'm happy enough with my pad and I'm happy to play against a M+K player in Bops or MW2 as they are governed by the same limits by the game anyway. They can not do anything over a pad user and can not magically kill 3 people coming at them in different directions or rush in to a spawn and kill everyone magically, game knowledge map knowledge and skill which can be gained on a pad also is where these games shine.

Is also pointless in posting up a video found on youtube or anything like that of someone with a M+K going on a rampage because chances are that they record every game and only post the best so for every 10 games you will see 1, much like Sandy Ravage you only see the best of his play on youtube if you go to his recent Bops games you will see that he does well on most but also that he does go negative on some team games. No one is perfect and skill plays a big part. The way the posts are in this thread tell me that if a M+K player is on the other team it automatically makes the game way overbalanced in their favour and I will never win. Absolute rubbish.
 
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5punk3monk3y said:
Xim is an Xbox adaptor Quake 3 is not on the xbox.......... there is no point in comparing anything to a non XBL game pointless imo and the Xim is going to be used in the most popular of games carry on if you want but tbh its pointless in not discussing anything but the most popular games which are atm Bops and MW2 in slot 1 and 2 on XBL.

Why even mention Quake 3 as I would never even dream of using a pad on that game as I would have my backside handed to me over and over pointless discussion.
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You are aware that Q3 was released on the dreamcast and was played a lot online? Lots people playing on a pad!

There's tons of different styles of FPS games on the Xbox, why should we only care about the ones you like to play in our discussion? The XIM can be used for more than a handful of games.
 
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You're sidestepping the point, 5punk3monk3y. It's easier with a mouse. Mouse users have an advantage. Because it's not as obvious in certain types of fps doesn't mean it's not there, or that the advantage is insignificant. Quake 3 was simply an example of a fps in which the advantages of using a mouse over a pad are marked (as anyone who played pad vs mouse in the DC days can painfully testify. Saying it was slaughter puts it mildly :eek:)
 
5punk3monk3y said:
The way the posts are in this thread tell me that if a M+K player is on the other team it automatically makes the game way overbalanced in their favour and I will never win. Absolute rubbish.
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Where are these posts claiming it's instantly game over? I've mentioned that I regularly slap hackers on MW2 on PC. Being able to beat cheaters does not make it acceptable.
 
Sigh.... M+K are obviously the better input method, but for the games that THIS adaptor are going to be used on, I will repeat myself, Bops MW2 and Halo which occupy slot 1,2 and 3 on the most played on XBL. I don't think you will see a noticeable advantage if you are a good player with a pad certainly on Bops and MW2. I can not comment on Halo as I have already said I am not a Halo player.

This discussion is about the Xim adaptor and it's effects against a pad player what in the hell does the Dreamcast have to do with it as Quake 3 was designed on that to use a pad or a M+K so obviously the M+K are going to be the better choice of input which I certainly would use if this discussion was about that console and that game.

I sir are not the one sidestepping the point that would be anyone derailing and talking about anything other than the Xim and the games it will be used on.

Why don't you all have a game against Toys as he is happy to play anyone but I will warn you he is a skilled player and uses knowledge over M+K skill in the game every time, he uses sound to draw you in and sets up against you, I dare anyone in this thread to give him a game.
 
orderoftheflame said:
It's like turning up to a biathalon on a snowmobile, because your a crack shot that cant ski, yet wants to compete in the Olympics.
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So i guess I will not have a chance against a M+K player according to that quote
or this one

clippa said:
We all know that playing with mouse and keyboard on consoles is akin to turning up to a knife fight with a gun. There is a massive difference between the skill it takes to control an analogue stick at the insane sensitivity and the skill it takes to play with mouse and keyboard.
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I could carry on if you want
 
5punk3monk3y said:
So i guess I will not have a chance against a M+K player according to that quote
or this one


I could carry on if you want
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My quote was about the mentality of someone wanting to gain an advantage if you read, not about the advantage presented. You seem to think that everyone is stating that it's an unbeatable advantage rather than just an unfair one.
 
orderoftheflame said:
My quote was about the mentality of someone wanting to gain an advantage if you read, not about the advantage presented. You seem to think that everyone is stating that it's an unbeatable advantage rather than just an unfair one.
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Exactly you use the word advantage again, it may offer a slight but it's not comparable to a snow mobile vs skis.

Give Toys a game and tell me that his M+K were the reason that he beats you or likewise you may beat him, what would you say if that happens.
 
Wyrdo said:
I'd actually like to, might send him a message when I get home.
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Yeah me too, I for one am thankful for the input they have made on this stuff. Rather than hear the same old re-gurge from people who know nothing about it or haven't used it.

I for one welcome our Xim overlords. ;)
 
That's all well and good guys but i state again, this thread was started about the XIM3. Here's a little quote from the guy making it:

Through Smart Translators, XIM3 is able to provide unparalleled mouse precision unachievable by any other gaming adaptor available
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Now 5punk3monk3y, a person defending the XIM2, has openly said that the XIM2 'may offer a slight [advantage]'. Even a slight advantage is something i'm not particularly happy with, i quite like a level playing field when it comes to controllers. But if what the developer says is true then the XIM3 will be better than the 2, giving a greater advantage.

This is what concerns me, i couldn't give a monkies about how big an advantage the XIM2 gives with the superior, more affordable and more user friendly XIM3 around the corner.
 
^ Yeah again something that keeps getting avoided.

The XIM 3 also appears to support macros, so you can for example map one button to do a load of things at the sametime. Such gamepads that have already been designed to do such things aren't granted licences.

I've spotted more than once where an XIM user has said that it's not cheating unless you are using macros. So again, it raises the point that the XIM 3 will allow you to essentially cheat. Are you honestly telling me that an XIM user isn't going to use the option to do a macro?

I also don't see what playing an XIM user is going to prove?
Surely the best way would be for them to play each other using a combination of all methods of control, thus you can then truly see whether it's down to skill or the control method.

The XIM can also be used to play other games, so saying that it's only going to be used in Halo and COD is ridiculous, people play other games too you know.

Let's just say for example, there are people who play Halo Wars or Command and Conquer... an XIM user would clearly have a huge advantage over a pad player in such a game. Sure it might not be the most popular game on Live, but people still play it and it's still just as much cheating.
 
I'd have no problem with a USB Hub which allows the G25 or G27 to be supported for example; As I don't see how you can consider them to be 'cheats'. You're just using a wheel for racing, or a joystick for flight sims.

However, the Mice and Keyboard is not a natural controller, in terms of you wouldn't fire a gun in a Rifle Range, using a Keyboard and a Mouse.

The games on the xbox and ps3 are designed to played using the joystick. The whole idea of consoles is that they can be played socially, on a sofa, in your living room and not locked away into a corner with a big computer desk.

The way I see it is, if you want to use a keyboard and mouse, go play a PC game.
 
hilly said:
However, the Mice and Keyboard is not a natural controller, in terms of you wouldn't fire a gun in a Rifle Range, using a Keyboard and a Mouse.

The games on the xbox and ps3 are designed to played using the joystick. The whole idea of consoles is that they can be played socially, on a sofa, in your living room and not locked away into a corner with a big computer desk.
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Hilly...what???? I am a US Army Ranger, I have fired more rounds in my life than you will probably ever see...and I guarantee you much like we do not use a M/K at the range, we do not use little thumb joysticks either. I have no idea how you thought that was a valid point to any of this discussion.

As you stated, the Xbox is for playing GAMES, no where in any of the manuals does it say you are required to sit on a sofa and play. BTW, many xim players DO sit on the sofa using the M/K, so that point goes out the window.

The only advantage I gain from using a XiM is the ability to actually play a FPS on the Xbox, with a controller, I am just a digital pile of meat in the game, and would be lucky to get one kill, let alone enjoy the game. Spunky stated he gamed against Toys and lost by 5, well knowing that, if I gamed against Spunky, I would get WORKED, since I know how badly I do against Toys. It is map knowledge, sound and knowing how the average person reacts in the game.

Another point, if it were not for the XiM, I would not have been able to get to know other people through LIVE and game with them since I would not even bother playing shooters on the Xbox, and the PC is chock full of hackers. I would never know who Spunkymonkey is and be able to enjoy gaming with brothers from other places.
 
Personally I see this as a pointless piece of hardware, created for those who want the PC experience on a console.

Seriously, **** off to the PC if you want a mouse and keyboard :p
 
hilly said:
is it not though that his extra 'skill' is due to an illegal control method, giving him that advantage?
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nope when i met him one on one on the map we played I didn't get beaten by him every time due to his M+K, I sometimes won he sometimes did, I am getting to the point that it didn't feel unbalanced all be it I was using the wrong gun, he was using the Scar-h myself the UMP at range the Scar-H wins hands down 70% of the time as the Scar-H does not pull up as much as the UMP. When I put him down I picked up his Scar and it felt pretty damn even to me then.

As I said none of you have tried playing against him only I have if he was laying me out every time then I would say it was unbalanced.

None of you have experienced it so how can you judge on him unless you put your money where your mouth is, I would say the guy is experienced at the game more so then any input method available, if you go up against him and sit in a corner with claymores all around you he is not going to be able to kill you easily with any sort of control method, I am of course talking about COD games here again but if someone would like to play him at Halo have a go to see if it is any different.


There is no point in throwing out accusations like "using a mouse is cheating" simply because he has as much chance of getting a kill as you do, I don't understand the context of that accusation due to the fact that in game if you come up behind him he is dead how is his cheating input method going to save him from that....... it's not.

If you round a corner in to his sites your dead but hang on a pad player would kill you also, if you come up on the side of him and he "hears" you he will turn and shoot so would a pad player but if you are facing him you would have the drop on him anyway. Saying it's unbalanced is one thing but saying it's cheating I just don't get. Again the only unbalancing thing I could think of was micro adjustments at range are easier but again choice of weapon here helps a lot. If I had been running round with the RPD the outcome of the game may have been different as it is more accurate than the UMP at range and has a higher ROF and bullet damage, there is a lot more in these games then just pointing and shooting understanding the limits of the weapons that you are holding how effective they are at range etc.

Here is a question for the MW2ers out there, why is the UMP the most unbalanced SMG in the game and why is it so popular?
 
Nexus said:
The XIM 3 also appears to support macros, so you can for example map one button to do a load of things at the sametime. Such gamepads that have already been designed to do such things aren't granted licences.
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There's no macros at all for XIM3. I think you could use them for XIM2 but they weren't officially supported by the maker. XIM3 wont be able to use them at all.
 
RangerLee14 said:
Hilly...what???? I am a US Army Ranger, I have fired more rounds in my life than you will probably ever see...and I guarantee you much like we do not use a M/K at the range, we do not use little thumb joysticks either. I have no idea how you thought that was a valid point to any of this discussion.
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I believe what he was trying to get across was that a lot of XIMers have said that Mouse and Keyboard is more natural. The reality, as you have pointed out is total nonsense as firing a gun is nothing like moving a keyboard and mouse... infact you could at least argue that gamepads are somewhat closer as you have triggers!

The only advantage I gain from using a XiM is the ability to actually play a FPS on the Xbox, with a controller, I am just a digital pile of meat in the game, and would be lucky to get one kill, let alone enjoy the game. Spunky stated he gamed against Toys and lost by 5, well knowing that, if I gamed against Spunky, I would get WORKED, since I know how badly I do against Toys. It is map knowledge, sound and knowing how the average person reacts in the game.
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As a military man, presumably when you joined you were nothing but a 'piece of meat', through training you no doubt learned how to become a solider, become disciplined, handle a weapon etc...

While worlds apart, how is it that difficult to learn to use a gamepad, everybody else does. At the end of the day, we are humans, we are designed to learn new things.

On a similar note, presumably as solider you 'make do with what you are given', thus if you have to work with rifles that are complete crap, you make do with them the best you can. I doubt you turn around to your higher ups and start whining that it's not what you are used to.
 
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