Yet another gender-swapped remake incoming - Cliffhanger!

[ianh]

As I've said a few times regarding remakes, I think there are only two reasonable ways to believe a remake is necessary:

a - The original was commercially bad and yours is better
b - You're telling a different take on the original story (like Total Recall remake stayed closer to the book than Arnies film)

However the recent obsession of remaking a film AND gender-swapping the lead role has ensured than none of these films has been better received (through the box office) than the films/franchises they're based on, so I wonder why Hollywood is still so adamant about "throwing away" money when that money could be used, in this case, for a stand-alone female climber film in the wilderness which doesn't "need" to cling to the coat-tails of Cliffhanger to try and be successful?

Are they saying that female characters are so badly performing that the only way they can succeed is if they use male roles which are recast?

Anyway, here's the press report - https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/femalel...ic-cliffhanger-is-in-the-works-114231703.html

 

[Dis86]

I think it's hilarious. We're seeing the same thing in gaming where they're trying this 'strong female lead' shenanigans and it's failing there too.
People want a lead character they can relate to. The majority of gamers are still male. The majority of people that go to see action/sci-fi/fantasy films are still male. Appeal to your core market and you'll succeed. Don't and you won't.

As you've pointed out, the numbers support it, yet industries are still bending over backwards to be PC.

 

[VincentHanna]

I think it's hilarious. We're seeing the same thing in gaming where they're trying this 'strong female lead' shenanigans and it's failing there too.
People want a lead character they can relate to. The majority of gamers are still male. The majority of people that go to see action/sci-fi/fantasy films are still male. Appeal to your core market and you'll succeed. Don't and you won't.

You can't relate to females?

 

[VincentHanna]

Cliffhanger is not exactly a classic movie.

It's a decent enough 90's action movie, nothing more.

I don't care much if they remake it, with or without gender switches.

 

[Gerard]

I eagerly await the Gender swapped version of Rocky, Rockina

 

[neoboy]

Man I loved this film as a kid, wonder how it held up.

Not exactly a massive franchise or success from what I remember, bit surprising it's getting a reboot at all.

I eagerly await the Gender swapped version of Rocky, Rockina

You just wait until you meet Rambona!

 

[james.miller]

I think it's hilarious. We're seeing the same thing in gaming where they're trying this 'strong female lead' shenanigans and it's failing there too.
People want a lead character they can relate to. The majority of gamers are still male. The majority of people that go to see action/sci-fi/fantasy films are still male. Appeal to your core market and you'll succeed. Don't and you won't.

As you've pointed out, the numbers support it, yet industries are still bending over backwards to be PC.

I dont think that's the same at all. Nothing wrong with games with a female lead. At all. But this gender swapping rebooting in film would be like rebooting Half Life with a female lead. Why even bother? you don't need to make (worse) versions of existing films (or games) just to shoehorn female leads in - it clearly doesnt work.

 

[Zefan]

You can't relate to females?

That isn't what he was saying, but I think you know that. It's really quite obvious that the majority of people will be able to relate more to characters similar to themselves in this way, everything else being equal.

 

[VincentHanna]

That's exactly what he's saying.

Most game characters recently have been dude bros or alpha males. You're telling me gamers relate to them?

People relate to Marcus in Gears of War? Or the Master chief in Halo? Or Doom guy?

Horizon: Zero Dawn was one of my favourite games recently and that had a female protagonist.

 

[cheesyboy]

Oceans 8 performed bang in line with the other movies in the series, considering its lower budget.

And Overboard's gender swap reboot was a big success, on its budget (vs the original which bombed)

Whereas Total Recall reboot, cited in the op, was a big box office failure. As was the robocop reboot in the West (saved by China from being an overall bomb), as well as late sequels like Blade Runner and Independence Day, which sank like a stone.

What I'm saying is, most reboots and overdue sequels are garbage and/or perform badly. It's not a gender-swap issue.

 

[Dis86]

You can't relate to females?

Did you ever play streets of rage or golden axe as a kid? If so I bet you didn't choose Tyris or Blaze.

Even now as an adult, when you play the likes of dragon age, mass effect or anything really I would guess that the vast majority of us men play as a male character when given the choice. We might On a 2nd run through play as a female just to experience different dialogue options etc.

 

[PlacidCasual]

Oceans 8 performed bang in line with the other movies in the series, considering its lower budget.

And Overboard's gender swap reboot was a big success, on its budget (vs the original which bombed)

Whereas Total Recall reboot, cited in the op, was a big box office failure. As was the robocop reboot in the West (saved by China from being an overall bomb), as well as late sequels like Blade Runner and Independence Day, which sank like a stone.

What I'm saying is, most reboots and overdue sequels are garbage and/or perform badly. It's not a gender-swap issue.

Oceans 8 was ok it but considering the absolutely amazing cast at it's disposal it under utilised them massively. My general problem with female led reboots or normally male led movies is that they are written poorly. Wonder Woman was a good film but Chris Pine's character really drove the plot and made the sacrifice. Captain Marvel was in no danger and needed no one else in the whole movies cos she'd got woman strength. Oceans 8 was just too safe with the plot it was generic heist by numbers done first, done better and with more panache by Oceans 11. It wasted the talent available, an Oceans 7 but a more daring and risky script might be worth it but only if they nail it.

I like Cliffhanger and don't mind a reboot, but can we get a decent script where the female protagonist doesn't Rambo her 50 kilo way through a bunch of ex-Special forces types but uses her defining skill and knowledge rock climbing to affect her success. Maybe making a few difficult choice and failing a bit along the way.

 

[cheesyboy]

Did you ever play streets of rage or golden axe as a kid? If so I bet you didn't choose Tyris or Blaze.

Even now as an adult, when you play the likes of dragon age, mass effect or anything really I would guess that the vast majority of us men play as a male character when given the choice. We might On a 2nd run through play as a female just to experience different dialogue options etc.

I actually mostly play female. Love me a badass woman character.

 

[VincentHanna]

Did you ever play streets of rage or golden axe as a kid? If so I bet you didn't choose Tyris or Blaze.

Even now as an adult, when you play the likes of dragon age, mass effect or anything really I would guess that the vast majority of us men play as a male character when given the choice. We might On a 2nd run through play as a female just to experience different dialogue options etc.

I think you are taking your experience and assuming that it must be the same for everyone.

In Mass Effect I played as a custom Femshep from the very beginning.

I've played through the series about 3 times in total, and never used the male shepherd.

I first played Streets of Rage when I was about 10, and I tried the game with all the characters. I settled on Axel because Blaze was too weak and Adam Hunter was too slow. In SOR2 I played as Skate as it was the 'cool' one with more unique movies.

 

[wolfie138]

as long as she's climbing in a croptop and miniskirt, i'm all for it.

 

[XeNoN89]

I think it's hilarious. We're seeing the same thing in gaming where they're trying this 'strong female lead' shenanigans and it's failing there too.
People want a lead character they can relate to. The majority of gamers are still male. The majority of people that go to see action/sci-fi/fantasy films are still male. Appeal to your core market and you'll succeed. Don't and you won't.

As you've pointed out, the numbers support it, yet industries are still bending over backwards to be PC.

There's been strong female characters in gaming for years. Lara Croft for example. I have no problem playing a female character if that is how it was intended. Horizon Zero Dawn was like that too even if they did overall push a slightly feminist agenda - I didn't mind because it was done well.

I do have a problem with them just gender swapping existing franchises. Create something new if you want but leave the old stuff alone.

 

[Kelt]

Did you ever play streets of rage or golden axe as a kid? If so I bet you didn't choose Tyris or Blaze.

Even now as an adult, when you play the likes of dragon age, mass effect or anything really I would guess that the vast majority of us men play as a male character when given the choice. We might On a 2nd run through play as a female just to experience different dialogue options etc.

Depends if it's third person or not.

If I've got to spend hours looking at a butt, I sure as hell want it to be a female butt!

 

[Nitefly]

Does it matter if it’s a man or a woman? Why make it an issue. It doesn’t matter. If you don’t like it don’t watch it but I wouldn’t be put off a reboot purely because there was a gender swap, or no gender swap, of leads.

 

[Dis86]

There's been strong female characters in gaming for years. Lara Croft for example. I have no problem playing a female character if that is how it was intended. Horizon Zero Dawn was like that too even if they did overall push a slightly feminist agenda - I didn't mind because it was done well.

I do have a problem with them just gender swapping existing franchises. Create something new if you want but leave the old stuff alone.

Lara Croft was never a strong female lead, she was simply eye candy hence the tight shorts and big cans! As Kelt points out below, if he's going to spend hours looking at a butt, he wants it to be a female butt. This was the same case. She's not a dog ugly, or even average looking 'every woman', you only have to look at those that have portrayed her in the films or at media events. It's that sexualisation of her character that was the (initial) appeal.

You've hit it exactly on with Horizon. It was there to push an agenda, not just because the character made sense. This is precisely what we're seeing in the reboots too. They're pushing an agenda, it's not just that the character makes sense. I'm not surprised that vincent and cheesey played female chars tbh as they're all for the same agenda. BF5 was a prime example of this with its female frontline soldiers. A game that originally provided a more realistic approach than its contemporaries (such as CoD) and then it goes and completely throws that out the window. Now sure, some women did fight in WW2, and some armies did use them in frontline roles (russian tankers for example) but these were the extreme minority. However, this is not what the game portrayed. It was purely done to push a populist feminist agenda.

I actually watched an interesting youtube video recently which broached the subject. People were complaining about female armour in fantasy contexts (both games and films) saying it's either overtly feminine with breasts etc clearly depicted or far too scanty (think conan with a bra) and again is being disrespectful and overly sexualising women. They asked why the armour wasn't more realistic and demanded that it be more akin to what women would have worn in the middle-ages and renaissance periods. They then got rather upset when it was pointed out that no examples exist as...well...women didn't usually take part in combat because they tend to do rather poorly against adult males.

 

[VincentHanna]

It's a collection of pixels, not a female butt...