Yet another gender-swapped remake incoming - Cliffhanger!

[VincentHanna]

The thread title and link in your op is literally about cliffhanger?!

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

Not even in the slightest. I can't see why would you think that is a genuine reason, unless you believe a persons masculinity is somehow related to what movies they watch, which is an incredibly toxic belief in what masculinity is?

When you say "who cares" that, to me, shows you seem to lack empathy and fail to understand that people (male and female) attach an emotional bond to characters or films that they like, so arbitrarily changing the basics of what the character/film is can break that emotional bond they've created, which can be a painful process. That is why people "care" about these gender-swapped films, because not only does it tell people "there must be something wrong with that character/film you formed an emotional bond with as we're going to change it" but also that the sole reason Hollywood is doing this (again to a character or film you have formed an emotional bond with) is purely for a minimal at best financial gain, if any at all looking a box office for these type of films, which just isn't a good enough reason to justify breaking that emotional bond for most people.

Of course thats just my opinion on the subject and is not stated as fact for everyone, just myself but whether you agree or not with the reaction being shown, being empathetic means you at least understand "why" the reaction happens at the very least, which is why your comment of "who cares" seemed to show a lacking that basic understanding of "why", which this post may hopefully change, and also show why it has nothing to do with masculinity at all.

Because these threads keep popping up on here. Be it a remake of a film with female cast or just some "feminist issue". Why does it matter too so may men is my question. I remember guys complaining when a women was cast as the lead in a new Star Wars films. Even guys getting bent out of shape over MeToo ffs.

Seriously? You feel an emotional bond to a film like Cliffhanger? Wow I've never heard anyone say that before about a film like Cliffhanger. And even if you do its not like anyone is forcing you to watch it so how is your emotional bond affected? I didn't watch the remake of Oceans 11 because it looked crap, same with Ghostbusters, at no point though did I feel my emotional bond with Danny Ocean or Venkman was threatened. It has nothing to do with empathy or a lack of it, in fact I'd say you lack empathy for the fact that maybe women want to see these films remade with women on the lead roles, they do make up 50% of the population after all. If they do and are prepared to go to the cinema and so make these films profitable then good for them. If not then they will not continue to be made, it's as simple as that. Of all the things going on in the world today to be concerned about, a remake of Cliffhanger with female leads is somewhere near the very bottom of the list.

 

[neoboy]

In all honesty they are onto something when it comes to getting free marketing by doing these female reboots.

Let's face it, if they just did a reboot this thread would barely reach 3 posts and we're onto page 3 now

 

[cheesyboy]

The only successful reboot of a beloved 80s or 90s movie IP that I can think of is the incredible Mad Max one. Which actually was about Furiosa rather than Max

Edit:
Well, star wars too I suppose. With its female protagonist

Edit2:
No, wait, there's Rocky=> Creed. With its black lead

More edits:
Karate kid (black lead)

 

[ianh]

The thread title and link in your op is literally about cliffhanger?!

Yeap, and nowhere does it say I like the film. I'm just reporting on the news of a remake.

Seriously? You feel an emotional bond to a film like Cliffhanger? Wow I've never heard anyone say that before about a film like Cliffhanger.

No and, as I have never said that I have any emotional bond to either Cliffhanger (or the main character) anywhere in this thread, your rhetorical question says to me that you haven't read and/or understand my posts very well.

And even if you do its not like anyone is forcing you to watch it so how is your emotional bond affected?

I'll pick a film I do have an emotional bond with to answer your question - Should Alien/Aliens be rewritten with Dwyane Johnson as "Edgar Ripley" I would not watch it but I would still feel annoyed that it was being re-made because it would feel like the new films are saying the old ones, which I have a bond with, are now not good enough or that the characters I feel a bond with are now not good enough, hence the need for a new gender-swap reboot. So it would then be understandable for fans (because thats what people who form a bond with entertainments are called) to vent that annoyance at what they (and I) would see as having an effect on their bond (by saying it's not good enough). Now is that a rational response, probably not, because it's an emotional response, which if anything makes it a stronger reaction, but that response will still be there, unless you're not a fan, in which case "who cares" apparently.

It has nothing to do with empathy or a lack of it, in fact I'd say you lack empathy for the fact that maybe women want to see these films remade with women on the lead roles, they do make up 50% of the population after all. If they do and are prepared to go to the cinema and so make these films profitable then good for them. If not then they will not continue to be made, it's as simple as that.

Yet women aren't clamouring for gender-swapped reboots, there is no vocal mass from 50% of the population asking for these films to be remade and re-gendered is there? Infact most prior attempts at re-gendered reboots end in either financial or critical failure or both so there is little female support even if they are made. So if there is little to no demand from women themselves for these re-gendered rebooted films, why are they being made rather than spending the time and money making new & fresh films instead which tell different exciting stories rather than rake over old ones? I mean I would have thought that bringing out a new female lead with an independant story would be "worth" more in the press rather than dealing with the negative press they'll get over rehashing the originals.

 

[robgmun]

Depends if it's third person or not.

If I've got to spend hours looking at a butt, I sure as hell want it to be a female butt!

But yeah, this, if it's 3rd person and the female is hot/cute then that's where my mind is at

 

[cheesyboy]

most prior attempts at re-gendered reboots end in either financial or critical failure or both

I don't think that's really true, is it?

Ghostbusters is the obvious example, but are there actually any others?

 

[MissChief]

When is the gender swap for Brokeback Mountain starting filming? Scar Jo and Emma Watson to star please, but would allow Emily Blunt at a push.

 

[Gerard]

Thats a great example. It wasn't a "gender swap" film but instead a stand-alone film which didn't rely on any previous male-lead films for its success and it shows that there genuinely is the talent and money out there to make really great female lead films which don't have to be pale imitation gender swapped reboots if only Hollywood looked for them.

And it was a really good movie

 

[Raymond Lin]

It’s just the studios running out of ideas and rehashing old stuff with a gender twist, don’t get a twist in your knickers over it.

 

[ianh]

I don't think that's really true, is it?

Ghostbusters is the obvious example, but are there actually any others?

There will be a few more I can't think of (they are still fairly rare) but here's a few -

Karate Kid 4 "The Next Karate Kid" - Terrible reviews and box office
What Men Want - Average of 50% positive reviews and made $70m so far vs the 65% positive and $370m (non adjusted) for the original "What Women Want" with Mel Gibson.
Overboard - This ones subjective TBF as it did better in the theatrical run than the original, which was a VHS hit rather than a box office one, but once out of theatres the remake has disappeared whilst the original is still well known and loved.

I don't include Oceans 8 in the list of re-gendered reboots because it's neither a reboot nor a gender swap film, however it's box office is the lowest of all 4 Ocean's films which sounds bad but it still made good money/reviews, it's just the other films were so much better. I've also left out "The Hustle" as it isn't out yet but I can guarantee it'll tank hard once it's released compared to the "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels" original, however time will tell.

When I look at female-lead stand-alone films I think it's a shame that for every "Bridesmaids", "Widows" or "Oceans 8" there is a pretty poor remake being made, taking money away from films which are potentially great stand-alone stories which'll never get made.

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

If Stallone couldn't save his friends girlfriend in the opening scene, how bad is it going to be watching a woman try to save someones boyfriend, does she just let go right away due to insufficient upper body strength or? Enquiring minds just want to know.

 

[VincentHanna]

Lesbians?

 

[McBain]

I can only imagine how bad this will be.

 

[Maximum Triceratops]

Put them in skimpy bikinis throughout the movie and throw a few lesbian scenes in and it might work.

 

[jpaul]

Enquiring minds just want to know.

I think it's a bellaying error, the guy is lead climbing , she gets a text message at the same time as he falls (to his death) ... one for the social media generation.

given the thread title using the word cliffhanger , like others I inferrred the movie, and by implication, stallone, was sacricant to op.

No one mentioned the elephant in the room - Bond, but I guess the ramifications of a female bond was kicked to death in that thread,
that would be some pandoras box.

 

[ianh]

given the thread title using the word cliffhanger , like others I inferrred the movie, and by implication, stallone, was sacricant to op.

It's kind of difficult to create a thread if you don't mention what it's about in the title so other people know what the thread is about to be fair

However while I do like the film for a cheesy 90's action flick, like Vincent, I couldn't name the main character as I thought John Lithgow was the best bit of the film by far (still remember his characters name) but it's in no way sacrosanct to me. The main point of the thread, as per the OP, was to discuss the need (or lack of) for re-gendered reboots and this film just happened to be the latest one to be in the news, hence why I only mentioned the film once.

 

[cheesyboy]

There will be a few more I can't think of (they are still fairly rare) but here's a few -

Karate Kid 4 "The Next Karate Kid" - Terrible reviews and box office
What Men Want - Average of 50% positive reviews and made $70m so far vs the 65% positive and $370m (non adjusted) for the original "What Women Want" with Mel Gibson.
Overboard - This ones subjective TBF as it did better in the theatrical run than the original, which was a VHS hit rather than a box office one, but once out of theatres the remake has disappeared whilst the original is still well known and loved.

I don't include Oceans 8 in the list of re-gendered reboots because it's neither a reboot nor a gender swap film, however it's box office is the lowest of all 4 Ocean's films which sounds bad but it still made good money/reviews, it's just the other films were so much better. I've also left out "The Hustle" as it isn't out yet but I can guarantee it'll tank hard once it's released compared to the "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels" original, however time will tell.

When I look at female-lead stand-alone films I think it's a shame that for every "Bridesmaids", "Widows" or "Oceans 8" there is a pretty poor remake being made, taking money away from films which are potentially great stand-alone stories which'll never get made.

This is not a convincing set of arguments.

What men want was a fraction of the budget of the Mel Gibson one, has a similar rotten tomatoes rating, and made good money.

Karate Kid 4..... I mean that was like 20+ years ago wasn't it? It's not like kk3 was any good either.

Overboard surely has to count as a successful reboot, being critically similarly received but actually making a load of cash, unlike the original?

And I've seen Oceans 12, so I'll take some convincing that 8, which I've not seen, was worse than that skip full of ****

Ghostbusters is just about the only strong case. And one swallow does not a summer make.

(the Hustle looks to be total garbage, but I bet it makes money)

 

[jpaul]

I guess a spoilers ok? ... but when John Lithgow gets his deserts (in a pretty realistic piece of old school action, negligible cgi #) I felt the most empathy for Stallone,
had not thought of it before, but, is the Lithgow look of terror, then, reminiscent of the girl at the start ? (like McClane's lift shaft dispatch )
..... the Dolomites are kick-ass glorious if you've climbed there ... the tre cime


# Many re-makes are poor because CGI tech is still abysmal versus the originals .. the chariot race being a case in point, exception with bladerunner
edit .. that's one reason I need to watch a GOT episode to see if the cgi lives up to the awards.

 

[ianh]

This is not a convincing set of arguments.

TBF neither are yours which are extremely subjective at best (and I admitted Overboard was subjective in my post ) but lets attempt to counter your arguments.

• KK4 - Age is irrelevant, it is still a re-gendered reboot which is the only thing we're discussing and it was a critical and box office failure.

• What Women/Men want - The reboots $20m budget to make $70m vs the originals $70m budget to make $375m, the reboot made much less even when measured as box office vs budget at just 3.5x vs 5.3x for the original, never mind the overall figure for the reboot still isn't "good money" when compared to the original which is, again, what this discussion is about. Plus the reviews you point to for the Original are 53% for both critics and fans on RT vs the re-gendered reboot with 43% critics & 31% fans - did you even look at either of these figures before posting that were "similar"?

• Overboard - The RT reviews for the Original are 45% critics & 73% fans vs the re-gendered reboot with 24% critics & 56% fans. However as I said in my post, the original bombed at the box office so the box office vs budget was $91m ($56m domestic) vs $12m for the reboot and the original was $26m domestic only (no foreign release) vs $22m budget - so exactly as my post said, the reboot did better at the box office but has all but disappeared once out of the theatres where as the original is still preferred looking at the reviews.