Your country needs YOU!

Except Russia is not in the same state as when Stalin was in power. It is not a command economy any longer. As you say they have no semi-conductors which go into a lot of military equipment. Would the oligarchs put up with their looted wealth being drained away or will they ally with disident military and get rid of Putin. It takes about 6 military to put one soldier in the field. I cannot remember how many civilians it takes for that one soldier but it takes a lot of people for one fighting man/woman. I do not think Russians would go onto a war footing for anything bar an attack on their country. You are forgetting re-arming on a scale necessary to do anything in Europe would be enormously expensive.
 
We're doomed, we're all doooomed! :D

I think we'd easily beat Russia. But we would need to invade. All big countries are susceptible to being invaded.
 
Well apparently the UK military is struggling to recruit the same as its been reported the US is struggling.

Makes you wonder what the UK govt/MoD might do to bolster those numbers, rather than revising targets downwards as they've already had to do.
 
do_ron_ron said:
Except Russia is not in the same state as when Stalin was in power. It is not a command economy any longer. As you say they have no semi-conductors which go into a lot of military equipment. Would the oligarchs put up with their looted wealth being drained away or will they ally with disident military and get rid of Putin. It takes about 6 military to put one soldier in the field. I cannot remember how many civilians it takes for that one soldier but it takes a lot of people for one fighting man/woman. I do not think Russians would go onto a war footing for anything bar an attack on their country. You are forgetting re-arming on a scale necessary to do anything in Europe would be enormously expensive.
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Command economy or not is immaterial if things move to a war footing many peace time conventions go out the window and really aren't a physical barrier in the way some seem to think - sure there are consequences eventually such as hyperinflation if the government simply starts printing money, but expensive takes on a new meaning if a country mobilises for war on a massive scale, requisitioning industry as required, etc. (it is already starting with the so called de-privatization with the Russian state taking over oil, gas, infrastructure and military-industrial companies, chemical companies, etc.) the only really meaningful barrier expense wise is if they are having to buy in loads of stuff from abroad which requires meaningful currency or something to trade.

While the lack of an advanced semi-conductor industry is a significant problem for them, they can still produce more basic semi-conductors and most discrete electronics and have some avenues through China, Iran and other backdoors to acquire a certain amount of more advanced stuff. They can still mass produce older generation hardware and more limited numbers of more advanced stuff.

No one so far has shown any real intention of standing up to Putin at least not those in Russia, many of the existing oligarchs he enabled, a growing number of the older ones who still had any power are mysteriously turning up dead, some of them are basically piggy banks for him anyway, a lot of the higher ups in the military, the only ones who might have some ability to do something, are closely associated with Putin and even if individually they might not be happy with the situation they'll likely be too suspicious of each other to make any moves. I don't know the truth of it but several people who were formerly high up in the government or military in Russia but defected or otherwise left Russia have claimed that Putin is just one of a small circle of powerful people (above any oligarchs, etc.) in Russia who've been pulling the strings for decades including the Yeltsins and nothing is done without the agreement of all of them, even this invasion of Ukraine.

On the flip side I don't see Russia being able to afford a protracted Cold War situation - rearming for war on a massive scale is one thing, maintaining a huge level of mobilisation if you don't go to war another thing entirely, the long term outcome of that would be to turn the country into basically North Korea.
 
BowdonUK said:
It looks like Australia are having the same conversations.

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I don't think they're going to fight for the british empire anymore...

do_ron_ron said:
The lead up to WW2 was in a different time and the world was in a different place. Ukraine is a regional affair well away from the UK. Russia is struggling to get any territory now in Ukraine. They do not have the strength to KO Ukraine. We are part of NATO which is more than sufficient to deal with any threat from Russia. The Tory party are doing far more damage to the UK at the moment than Putin's war. Again there is a big difference in the aims of the countries. Putin has said that he wants to get part of the USSR back. The UK was never part of the USSR. It is the usual war industry and militarist Generals talking up the non-existant threat
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You're missing the point. Putin's in it for the long term he isn't going anywhere anytime soon, or infact ever the only way he's ever going to leave the Kremlin is feet first in a wooden box. Biden's package for ukraine is already held up but internal infighting in congress and Trump will likely be POTUS soon enough he won't be giving ukraine anything he's just as likely to pull funding on NATO completely he's so whacked up anythings possible with him. The EU can't get funds to ukraine because its blocked by Orban acting as Putins' ally. Interest is always short term in the West like a baby with a new toy it gets distracted easily right now its Iran thats generating all the US ire now ukraine is all but forgotten and its troops having to ration ammunition they're so short of it .Putin knows this and calculating ukraine will if nothing else sue for peace after annexing a good chunk of its territory. Once thats done he'll turn his gaze elsewhere.

And you're failing to grasp the larger picture its not just about us the army chiefs aren't simply referring to our borders they're talking about defending NATO's borders which means the former soviet satellites i.e. the baltic states in Putins backyard etc and whatever else takes his fancy he's made no bones about that. He has a steady stream of money to fuel his ambitions in the form of oil and backdoors in the fort of China, N. Korea and even Iran to source the stuff he can't get from the west. They may not openly supply russia but you can bet theres some form of smuggling going on official or otherwise.
 
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i haven't read all this thread so its probably been mentioned , i didn't realise the age limit was that high

from December 1941. At the same time, the age ranges for men were changed - requiring military service up until the age of 51 and some form of service until 60. This was driven by a shortage of men for roles in the police and other services during the war.
 
Rroff said:
Hopefully we don't have Putin going senile in this situation to deal with :s
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That falls into the any number of reasonable worst case scenarios that could play out of the next few years, unfortunately. None of which look good...

I actually don't think all out war with Russia is likely, just a lot more likely than it was a few years ago. Best we prepare.
 
BUDFORCE said:
It worries me honestly, and I cant think the way things are going its looking more and more likely.

I do also shudder at the thought of the average british joe trying to fight, I mean, NOTHING against out current armed force guys, I am sure they are worth 50x Russian or whoever, probably more.

But lets face it, some blokes dont even like eating chicken off the bone, let alone fighting.

Can you imagine this guy rocking up to fight?

RYLAN.jpg
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I absolutely hate eating chicken off the bone.


It seems at the moment the UK can't force its citizens to go to war but it would all be voluntary by the looks of it, but I assume that would change with the click of a finger should Putin go full on Hitler 2
 
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esmozz said:
That falls into the any number of reasonable worst case scenarios that could play out of the next few years, unfortunately. None of which look good...

I actually don't think all out war with Russia is likely, just a lot more likely than it was a few years ago. Best we prepare.
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I don't think war with Russia is likely, I do think what people high up in the military (and probably government as well but politically for them it is suicide to start talking conscription, etc.) are realising is that if Ukraine falls, and with the reducing support that is a real potential, we'll be heading deep into Cold War territory and all the security nightmare that entails and if we are in a situation where we are barely producing ammo, stockpiles barely sufficient to last days in a real war, can barely put together proper naval fleets, man power down to the 10s of thousands, etc. it will only entice Russia, who've less and less to lose, to test the boundaries with a realistic risk of that actually leading to war.

And contrary to the perception a lot of people seem to get, Russia's military and related problems aren't unfixable if they do attempt to learn from them and it is within their means to rectify, and without the same constraints when it comes to things like human rights and health and safety, along with the way the West often denies/tries to avoid facing the realities when it comes to a potential build up to war and/or trying to save spending money due to short-termist perspectives, they potentially have an advantage if it does come to rearming on a larger scale.
 
BUDFORCE said:
It worries me honestly, and I cant think the way things are going its looking more and more likely.

I do also shudder at the thought of the average british joe trying to fight, I mean, NOTHING against out current armed force guys, I am sure they are worth 50x Russian or whoever, probably more.

But lets face it, some blokes dont even like eating chicken off the bone, let alone fighting.

Can you imagine this guy rocking up to fight?

RYLAN.jpg
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This guy I was watching on Youtube said the UK and probably the US too, we would struggle if an all out WW3 happened by looking at the state of men these days.

Its full of "They/Them's", men walking around in shinny jeans on their tip toes, overweight with barrel belly or skinny like an size 6 female and cant do a single pull up :D We cant even get a decent workforce working from 9 till 5 without them going off sick due to anxiety and depression.

The result of having life on easy mode without any threat of real danger.
 
bobuk said:
Good luck with that,
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Germany were only stopped by the cold weather, and Japan were running riot inside China. In more recent times Iraq.

Big countries can't react quick enough. The Wagner group could have taken over Russia if their leader continued forward.
 
BowdonUK said:
The Wagner group could have taken over Russia if their leader continued forward.
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Problem with just not having a plan for it, not being prepared. And Wagner had an advantage a lot of people overlook in having actual combat experience vs the internal security forces in Russia and a higher level of competency in general compared to the regular army - they were actually using the Pantsir system effectively for example. (Something a lot of people are overlooking - a little bit of being prepared, a little bit of being organised, goes a very long way to preventing things like war happening in the first place and the opposite being true neglecting that actually makes war more likely even when it shouldn't be the case).

They could probably have gone all the way if they'd tried, Prigozhin anticipated and leapfrogged the eventual response. Not that Prigozhin would have been any better alternative - but I don't think his intention was ever to replace Putin.
 
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glenimp617 said:
quoted for truth!
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Yep, my friend who works for the NHS. She is the same age as me 40, "trying" to manage a team of 10. Her words,

"I am fed up of Generation Z! They don't want to work, being signed off sick for BS reasons and its only a office job . God help us if we ever go to war!"
 
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This thread seems to contain views that we would still have a country left to defend with an army if a war with Russia kicked off?

I have to ask... How can you come to that conclusion?

What scenario would get to that point where the UK was a sea of radiation?


I get the hypothetical standpoint. But not the realistic one
 
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We've had a lot of problems with recruitment lately, and unlike some have been saying in the business thread it isn't a problem with where I work, an increasing number of people don't want to have to do real work... (not helped by some issues with the recruitment process which wasn't weeding them out but that isn't the entire story). I've watched the balance tip over the last nearly 20 years from being the odd person to becoming a far more common story.
 
I'm against military national service because I would prefer our armed forces to be professional soldiers. I'm sure the army, etc, don't want to have to look after a bunch of people straight out of university. But I am coming around to the idea of a civilian based national service where people spend a year or two working on civil projects; for example road repairs or vehicle repairs, etc. Perhaps there could be an option of a military arm but it would have to be voluntary. I think the country would benefit a lot from it and I also think young people would benefit from it.
 
413x said:
where the UK was a sea of radiation?
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In this day and age, assuming their arsenal worked as intended - which is debatable, the UK post a Russian nuclear strike would look very different to what most people seem to think, and in some ways more hellish. It isn't going to be a sea of radiation. While some warheads would be used against capital cities/high population centres most will be targetted at military and civilian infrastructure, aside from against bunkers/command centres most would be configured for airburst use which significantly reduces fallout.

Reality would be 100s of thousands dead, no power, no ports, mass civil crisis/disobedience, no supermarkets, people fighting for scraps, etc.
 
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