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Seems the media is trying to compare us to Switzerland now.

A country where they would only ever fbe conscripted to fight on their own soil for their own country. (yea know they have mandatory service for a few years)

doesn't really compare to the UK where you fight for an MP whos desperate to impress the President of the USA.
in some foreign war of theres, fighting an enemy they probably created in the first place..
 
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arknor said:
Seems the media is trying to compare us to Switzerland now.

A country where they would only ever fbe conscripted to fight on their own soil for their own country.

doesn't really compare to the UK where you fight for an MP whos desperate to impress the President of the USA.
in some foreign war of theres, fighting an enemy they probably created in the first place..
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That's the crux of it for me. If we are being invaded then I completely agree with conscription because what are your other options? But conscription whilst invading? absolutely not.
 
Rroff said:
Personally don't consider the threat from Russia, or a greater global escalation, non-existent, but having a more robust readiness would go a long way to rendering it non-existent IMO. The world is far more destabilised since the outbreak of war in Ukraine, Russia might not pose much of a threat in terms of a wider conventional war now but they are rearming - ignoring that lead to WW2.
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The lead up to WW2 was in a different time and the world was in a different place. Ukraine is a regional affair well away from the UK. Russia is struggling to get any territory now in Ukraine. They do not have the strength to KO Ukraine. We are part of NATO which is more than sufficient to deal with any threat from Russia. The Tory party are doing far more damage to the UK at the moment than Putin's war. Again there is a big difference in the aims of the countries. Putin has said that he wants to get part of the USSR back. The UK was never part of the USSR. It is the usual war industry and militarist Generals talking up the non-existant threat
 
do_ron_ron said:
The lead up to WW2 was in a different time and the world was in a different place. Ukraine is a regional affair well away from the UK. Russia is struggling to get any territory now in Ukraine. They do not have the strength to KO Ukraine. We are part of NATO which is more than sufficient to deal with any threat from Russia. The Tory party are doing far more damage to the UK at the moment than Putin's war. Again there is a big difference in the aims of the countries. Putin has said that he wants to get part of the USSR back. The UK was never part of the USSR. It is the usual war industry and militarist Generals talking up the non-existant threat
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Doesn't mean elements of history can't repeat themselves, the crucial bit here being ignoring that Russia is rearming, Russia is not our friend, Russia has ambitions well beyond Ukraine, though I don't think Putin has at all seriously considered a wider campaign against Europe the weaker we look the more enticing that becomes and re-establishing even part of the USSR will sooner or later butt heads with NATO and our interests, especially if we are under-prepared and how that will look to the likes of Russia who only really recognise strength.

Russia is struggling now, but that is not an unfixable situation for them as much as some people like to believe is the case.
 
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Yeah war can take many forms but it seems modern warfare involving any kind of near peer, not involving nuclear, will likely come down to expending a lot of the advanced stuff first without necessarily any kind of conclusion and increasingly descending into something more akin to trench warfare :s
 
You will always need boots on the ground to take and hold strategic points. Area denial is just as critical to the strategic points and that's where your arty and long range stuff enters play.
 
Rroff said:
Doesn't mean elements of history can't repeat themselves, the crucial bit here being ignoring that Russia is rearming, Russia is not our friend, Russia has ambitions well beyond Ukraine, though I don't think Putin has at all seriously considered a wider campaign against Europe the weaker we look the more enticing that becomes and re-establishing even part of the USSR will sooner or later butt heads with NATO and our interests, especially if we are under-prepared and how that will look to the likes of Russia who only really recognise strength.

Russia is struggling now, but that is not an unfixable situation for them as much as some people like to believe is the case.
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You know Putin's intentions and ambitions? All anyone has ever heard is that he thinks Russia losing territory from the USSR was bad. When Ukraine eventually fizzles out, Russia will not be in any state to start anything else. Wars cost. A lot of cash and people. Russia still in under sanctions and all that would need to end and Russia would have to build up a war chest before they could attempt anything. Putin is 71 now so this will be his last 'special measure'.
Russia is struggling to get conscripts to fight at the moment. Threats of invading Europe are massive BS.
 
I’ve got a friend who’s half-Finnish and did national service to avoid losing his citizenship. He’s bricking it right now about being called up!
 
do_ron_ron said:
You know Putin's intentions and ambitions? All anyone has ever heard is that he thinks Russia losing territory from the USSR was bad. When Ukraine eventually fizzles out, Russia will not be in any state to start anything else. Wars cost. A lot of cash and people. Russia still in under sanctions and all that would need to end and Russia would have to build up a war chest before they could attempt anything. Putin is 71 now so this will be his last 'special measure'.
Russia is struggling to get conscripts to fight at the moment. Threats of invading Europe are massive BS.
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Not precisely but a certain amount becomes very likely when you've watching this awhile.

Wars cost, and there are realistic constraints, but like many others you are looking at this from the rules of a peace time economy, a certain amount of that goes out the window depending on what kind of war time situation it is.

Russia has a lot of the resources it needs, it has man power, they did lose a few 100,000 of their brightest and best to a mixture of conscription and fleeing the country but they are still getting by.

While some of the stuff coming out about them rearming is bluster/propaganda or those promising Putin things they can't deliver on and sanctions are impacting the more advanced stuff they are also making progress.

Putin might put a time limit on things but it is anyone's guess who comes after him - could just as easily be replaced by more of the same or worse than it could be for the better.

EDIT: Russia dredging up 70 year olds from the far east to send to the frontline shouldn't be, on its own, seen as desperation - their mentality is to rinse a lot of that out to the grinder early on.
 
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If conscription actually happened, you can bet the new "British" would bail on us, would all be on boats back to the continent in the blink of an eye, probably with the intention of fighting against us. :D

Diversity is our strength.
 
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ebilcake said:
If conscription actually happened, you can bet the new "British" would bail on us, would all be on boats back to the continent in the blink of an eye, probably with the intention of fighting against us. :D

Diversity is our strength.
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With attitude(s) from the "locals" like this on display, is it any wonder they wouldn't want to fight for "us" ?

Put the dog whistle away, srsly.
 
ebilcake said:
If conscription actually happened, you can bet the new "British" would bail on us, would all be on boats back to the continent in the blink of an eye, probably with the intention of fighting against us. :D
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Better hope not since the majority of native "British" are overweight or obese and workshy lazy ******** (according to our esteemed overlords) we're going to be ****** if the people with enough drive to upsticks and travel to a new country for a better life don't want to fight! ;)

ebilcake said:
Diversity is our strength.
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More so than being inbred.
 
Freakbro said:
Better hope not since the majority of native "British" are overweight or obese and workshy lazy ******** (according to our esteemed overlords) we're going to be ****** if the people with enough drive to upsticks and travel to a new country for a better life don't want to fight! ;)

More so than being inbred.
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Native Brits typically don't inbred. That's a Pakistani issue, up-to 59 per cent of British Pakistanis still marry first cousins.
 
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ebilcake said:
If conscription actually happened, you can bet the new "British" would bail on us, would all be on boats back to the continent in the blink of an eye, probably with the intention of fighting against us. :D

Diversity is our strength.
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so would all the rich, famous, most politicians families etc
Bet some of them already been seeing private GPs etc building up a history of why they can't be conscripted

being a nom dom must help too

only the people who can't afford to leave would be forced to fight
 
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Rroff said:
Not precisely but a certain amount becomes very likely when you've watching this awhile.

Wars cost, and there are realistic constraints, but like many others you are looking at this from the rules of a peace time economy, a certain amount of that goes out the window depending on what kind of war time situation it is.

Russia has a lot of the resources it needs, it has man power, they did lose a few 100,000 of their brightest and best to a mixture of conscription and fleeing the country but they are still getting by.

While some of the stuff coming out about them rearming is bluster/propaganda or those promising Putin things they can't deliver on and sanctions are impacting the more advanced stuff they are also making progress.

Putin might put a time limit on things but it is anyone's guess who comes after him - could just as easily be replaced by more of the same or worse than it could be for the better.

EDIT: Russia dredging up 70 year olds from the far east to send to the frontline shouldn't be, on its own, seen as desperation - their mentality is to rinse a lot of that out to the grinder early on.
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It does not matter what angle you look at it. Wars cost a lot. Every bullet, artillery shell, drone etc etc. It is a very costly exercise especially as the main source of Putin's income(oil, gas) has had to be sold at a huge discount so he can get any money. One of the complaints by the Wagner leader was his men were not getting supplied and these problems will only get worse as time goes on.
You only have a slice of your manpower to fight and if some flee and others are dying already it does not leave a lot as Ukraine seems to be an attritional war.
Any replacement for Putin will meed the backing of the oligarchs and the military and I doubt either of these groups would want to continue. They left Afghanistan without winning. If, as you say, they have sent 70 year olds, it shows the desperation.
 
do_ron_ron said:
It does not matter what angle you look at it. Wars cost a lot. Every bullet, artillery shell, drone etc etc. It is a very costly exercise especially as the main source of Putin's income(oil, gas) has had to be sold at a huge discount so he can get any money. One of the complaints by the Wagner leader was his men were not getting supplied and these problems will only get worse as time goes on.
You only have a slice of your manpower to fight and if some flee and others are dying already it does not leave a lot as Ukraine seems to be an attritional war.
Any replacement for Putin will meed the backing of the oligarchs and the military and I doubt either of these groups would want to continue. They left Afghanistan without winning. If, as you say, they have sent 70 year olds, it shows the desperation.
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That is more of a barrier if you are having to source a critical amount of equipment or fuel from foreign sources, but aside from advanced semi-conductors Russia can produce everything it needs domestically, sure there are consequences like hyper-inflation and/or ending up like North Korea at some point down the road but it is not the barrier to rearming on a war footing people seem to think. Especially if Russia considers itself backed into a corner or Putin bets the house.

Russia still has masses of man power to tap yet even if some flee and some is needed to run the country/war production - they barely called up 10% of those available to fight in the poorest districts and less than 1% from the richest ones yet. People see them putting like 70 year olds on the frontline as desperation in Russia it is just using a resource before it gets too old or dies.
 
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