Your country needs YOU!

[Efour]

Attacking Turkey would be ludicrous for russia and technically "yes"

Don't Turkey have the biggest standing army in Europe...? (on paper) Most tanks something...

I dont think a NATO country would start a nuke swap but it would be forced to if it came down to it..

 

[FoxEye]

Working out quite well? Are you serious!?

Ukraine have been anything BUT desperate to join NATO.

So again, if Russia decided to attack a NATO ally what percentage of our gear, ammo and troops would you be in favour of sending to active combat?
Just trying to work out how committed to NATO you are

...but Ukraine is not in NATO.... it's a completely different situation.

How committed *I* am to NATO? Eh? None of those questions make sense, tbh.

 

[FoxEye]

@Mercenary Keyboard Warrior yes, 'haha'.

You're the one assuming that NATO strategists are literally idiots. Who will let Russia take NATO apart country by country and not do anything. 'haha' indeed!!

 

[Efour]

Honestly we should be worrying about China... I cBA i sound like a parrot
**** i hope they have another revolution in russia....

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

...but Ukraine is not in NATO.... it's a completely different situation.

How committed *I* am to NATO? Eh? None of those questions make sense, tbh.

Its not a hard question

Your saying Russia wouldn't do anything because NATO
But if they did they would need to be firmly put back in their box, which would mean NATO would need to step up
So how many Brits and what % of our equipment do you think we should send as part of our stepping up?

@Mercenary Keyboard Warrior yes, 'haha'.

You're the one assuming that NATO strategists are literally idiots. Who will let Russia take NATO apart country by country and not do anything. 'haha' indeed!!

I am not because I haven't said they will go snip snip snip snip constantly.
If they succeed in Ukraine they would likely have a consolidation phase. Maybe 10 years, rearm, get the population mainly under control then look to another state. Not even necessarily NATO

 

[FoxEye]

Sorry can anyone tell me where the goalposts are, now? I seem to have lost sight of them.

e: But seriously, what is the point of asking me how NATO should respond to an attack on Poland and how many troops Britain should send? As if I can give a meaningful answer to that? And then saying afterwards, "Well it might not be NATO at all!" Make up your mind.

 

[Efour]

Ill give my opinion on the British NATO commitment... A token ground defence because it would be better to send air force fly from home.
You would have to match the ground build up so i guess you could easily see it and then have a real number.... Im sure the local Eastern european countries would commit faster and be able to do more....

UK hasn't even got an army and being on the back line so to speak we/you/they/could happily commit 50% imo.

 

[do_ron_ron]

So what they would either just move out, or more likely be given a safe route out.

It would take many months to remove a base by which time they would have come under fire. If Americans 'were given a safe route out' that would destroy the NATO organisation and the US has pumped too much money into it to let if go. It also negates their plan since WW2 to fight any war in Europe rather than in the US.

 

[Rroff]

You talking about russia picking off countries, NATO members 1by1? That's imo "complete nonsense"
It would be Nuclear war after a few weeks... Cant wait!

Ive really shifted my opinion on this now. Ukraine is a lost cause because they arent NATO simple as.... Its gonna be a drawn out horrific "slow" choke out like a boa constrictor on its food..... WE will drip feed supplies and money but never take it futher... They have to do it alone. (sadly)
That's not a pacifist opinion thats world politics cos i think any escalation is nuclear....

i Fing hate it... but it is whats going to happen and i really hope im wrong and ill eat all the umbel pies.

Suprise China world tour 2030... Buy your tickets now...

It might seem a joke right now given their progress in Ukraine and amount they've depleted their armed forces but if Russia did say rush Gotland and setup advanced air defences (ignoring for a minute the track record of their air defences right now) and then start moving forces into Latvia or Estonia is anyone going to go nuclear?

 

[413x]

You talking about russia picking off countries, NATO members 1by1? That's imo "complete nonsense"
It would be Nuclear war after a few weeks... Cant wait!

Ive really shifted my opinion on this now. Ukraine is a lost cause because they arent NATO simple as.... Its gonna be a drawn out horrific "slow" choke out like a boa constrictor on its food..... WE will drip feed supplies and money but never take it futher... They have to do it alone. (sadly)
That's not a pacifist opinion thats world politics cos i think any escalation is nuclear....

i Fing hate it... but it is whats going to happen and i really hope im wrong and ill eat all the umbel pies.

Suprise China world tour 2030... Buy your tickets now...

Yeah I agree.
The war in Ukraine is just a drawn out slow death. Putin won't stop. Because Ukraine would have to concede something.

What has to happen. And what eu/nato should be doing is making sure it goes no further. And that it is clear that going any further will result in WW3.

I can only see that as getting more countries in the NATO club.

 

[Rroff]

It would take many months to remove a base by which time they would have come under fire. If Americans 'were given a safe route out' that would destroy the NATO organisation and the US has pumped too much money into it to let if go. It also negates their plan since WW2 to fight any war in Europe rather than in the US.

Uh - they pulled out of some of their Afghanistan bases in days, basically trashing or leaving most stuff and flying everyone out, potentially they do the same here as well. You seem very blind sided by how things are done in peace time and can't seem to see how those peace time constraints or logic aren't actually real physical restraints when the gloves come off.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

It would take many months to remove a base by which time they would have come under fire. If Americans 'were given a safe route out' that would destroy the NATO organisation and the US has pumped too much money into it to let if go. It also negates their plan since WW2 to fight any war in Europe rather than in the US.

Lol no

 

[do_ron_ron]

Attacking Turkey would be ludicrous for russia and technically "yes"

Don't Turkey have the biggest standing army in Europe...? (on paper) Most tanks something...

I dont think a NATO country would start a nuke swap but it would be forced to if it came down to it..

Turkey also has two of the largest US bases in Europe.

 

[FoxEye]

It might seem a joke right now given their progress in Ukraine and amount they've depleted their armed forces but if Russia did say rush Gotland and setup advanced air defences (ignoring for a minute the track record of their air defences right now) and then start moving forces into Latvia or Estonia is anyone going to go nuclear?

So... ignoring reality, and substituting instead one where Russia can steamroll Europe and be able to hold it easily and we basically have no counter... yeah, that's a tough one, isn't it...

One for the "fiction" section, methinks.

e: Or indeed coming to an army recruitment pamphlet near you, very soon...

 

[do_ron_ron]

Uh - they pulled out of some of their Afghanistan bases in days, basically trashing or leaving most stuff and flying everyone out, potentially they do the same here as well. You seem very blind sided by how things are done in peace time and can't seem to see how those peace time constraints or logic aren't actually real physical restraints when the gloves come off.

You are forgetting that the US was in negotiations for months beforehand and had agreed on the date they were going to pull out. The stuff they left was because the cost of getting it out was more than the cost of the item. They just trashed any large items to make sure they could not be used.

 

[Rroff]

So... ignoring reality, and substituting instead one where Russia can steamroll Europe and be able to hold it easily and we basically have no counter... yeah, that's a tough one, isn't it...

One for the "fiction" section, methinks.

Only not really fiction, though unlikely.

Russia still has the cash for a full mobilisation, under war time measures they can rearm far quicker than most people allow. I don't seem them doing it but the direction of flow in Russia is really not inspiring - while glacially slow at the moment there is mass de-privatisation of critical industries, massive contracts out to increase military production and a lot of effort going into re-designing key hardware to be able to produce it in a more economical form, less reliant on advanced electronics where necessary.

Though their track record with their air defences is poor - other countries have shown Russian systems to be capable when operated correctly, the likes of Wagner were able to put systems like Pantsir into effective use which the Russian army has struggled with - so the situation is not unfixable for them as some think.

Give it a year or two I think people will be looking at Russia very differently, and maybe taking some of these scenarios a little more seriously.

 

[Rroff]

You are forgetting that the US was in negotiations for months beforehand and had agreed on the date they were going to pull out. The stuff they left was because the cost of getting it out was more than the cost of the item. They just trashed any large items to make sure they could not be used.

Negotiations have very little to do with how quickly they can if necessary pull out of a base, if it came to it they aren't going to be sitting around for months.

 

[Efour]

It might seem a joke right now given their progress in Ukraine and amount they've depleted their armed forces but if Russia did say rush Gotland and setup advanced air defences (ignoring for a minute the track record of their air defences right now) and then start moving forces into Latvia or Estonia is anyone going to go nuclear?

Let me say i respect your knowledge and im way out of my league.

so...

I think it would be a similar scenario to Poland, the camaraderie between those countries, from what i understand, is extremely tight.
They would provide the ground forces.
The USA/France/ UK would provide enough firepower to overwhelm any Russian air defence in a support role, no boots on the ground.

I don't know what game is it (yes game flight simulator) but it simulates the exact scenario, first strikes on Sweden with a russian fleet and tbh although its just a simulation its not a complete imbalance and the russians have proved themselves pretty incompetent right now, im sure in a few years they'll have learnt a lot more and be could be re-equipped....

Anyway Nuclear war over it? we....

Only a nuclear war if when Russia was defeated the Polish or whom ever started taking the war back to Moscow which would be a cue for Russia to Nuke something in defence. Maybe they'll do it on a staging area just inside their own borders, maybe, Theyll get 1 free nuke before complete world outrage..... HOPEFULLY Nato wont retaliate.....

I mean its a horrific thing to even contemplate. Unless they go full MAD from the offset, I actually hope we can work it out after a a single use.
I still think Kyiv might experience the same thing a few years down the road...If Ukraines ability and resolve can pull off a superhuman example of resilience and sheer determination itll be slapped in the face by a completely shamed Russia. I hope Putin falls out of a window soon.

 

[Rroff]

I don't know what game is it (yes game flight simulator) but it simulates the exact scenario, first strikes on Sweden with a russian fleet and tbh although its just a simulation its not a complete imbalance and the russians have proved themselves pretty incompetent right now, im sure in a few years they'll have learnt a lot more and be could be re-equipped....

DCS?

Grim Reapers simulated a few variants of it.

EDIT: They had a funny one once, where a Type 45 glitched out and had infinite ammo and slightly quicker rate of fire than it should - basically became invincible - would have taken half of Russia's on paper strike capabilities to take it out :s

 

[FoxEye]

Only not really fiction, though unlikely.

Russia still has the cash for a full mobilisation, under war time measures they can rearm far quicker than most people allow. I don't seem them doing it but the direction of flow in Russia is really not inspiring - while glacially slow at the moment there is mass de-privatisation of critical industries, massive contracts out to increase military production and a lot of effort going into re-designing key hardware to be able to produce it in a more economical form, less reliant on advanced electronics where necessary.

Though their track record with their air defences is poor - other countries have shown Russian systems to be capable when operated correctly, the likes of Wagner were able to put systems like Pantsir into effective use which the Russian army has struggled with - so the situation is not unfixable for them as some think.

Give it a year or two I think people will be looking at Russia very differently, and maybe taking some of these scenarios a little more seriously.

They'd have to do a lot better in terms of morale and training, too, wouldn't they. Just having the gear is less than 1/2 the story. They'd have to somehow recruit and train a professional military that was competent and highly motivated to go make war on their neighbours... and for what? For Putin? For the glory days of the USSR?

Or they can try to press gang the general populace into more wars that they don't really want, with not spectacular results, as it happens. And massive casualties on their side. And maybe they miscalculate and start a revolt. Who knows.

All very hypothetical.