Zen news 'Going forward'

[Dave2150]

"But will it run Crysis?" clear scaling for higher threaded CPU's here.... even beyond 8 threads. Cryengine as it currently stands will run 16 threads A-Synchronously, tho it is continuously evolving.

Spoiler

It has a lot to do with the fact that it streams shading and lighting rather than it being pre-baked, its why games built with it look so gorgeous and dynamic, Star Citizen is a prime example, Crysis 3 i would argue still looks incredible even today.

I'm not talking so much about today, games that were released weeks or months ago; Apart from a few they are still built on ancient engines far less sophisticated than the Cryengine version that Crysis 3 was built on, FarCry 4 and FallOut 4 to name two.

The problem is with DX11 being even more ancient than the DUNA Engine FC4 was built on there has been no incentive for Engine Developers to modernise their junk, altho CryTek have never let that be a hindrance, they are a bit like Nvidia Driver Developers getting far more from what they have to work with than you'd think they could.

In any-case with DX12 now in Developers hands it is no longer the case that they as individuals have reached the pinnacle of whats possible with what they have, the problem of how to synchronise a large array of threads has solved its self.

Nonsense - your using graphs/benchmarks from 2012 which feature Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge CPU's, as well as old GPU's running at 1280x720 - grow up dude.

Try looking for crysis 3 benchmarks done on Haswell at 1080P as a minimum:

Source: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2014/09/03/intel-core-i7-5930k-and-core-i7-5820k-revie/7

I don't care how well threaded a game is, I care about it's performance on currently available quad, hex and octa cores at commonly used resolutions. Not 720p nonsense to show CPU bottleneck that's never seen in the real world.

As you can see above, it makes 0 difference if you have a 4790k or 5960X in games, even in the most threaded games out there.

 

[humbug]

Nonsense - your using graphs/benchmarks from 2012 which feature Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge CPU's, as well as old GPU's running at 1280x720 - grow up dude.

Try looking for crysis 3 benchmarks done on Haswell at 1080P as a minimum:

Spoiler

Source: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2014/09/03/intel-core-i7-5930k-and-core-i7-5820k-revie/7

I don't care how well threaded a game is, I care about it's performance on currently available quad, hex and octa cores at commonly used resolutions. Not 720p nonsense to show CPU bottleneck that's never seen in the real world.

As you can see above, it makes 0 difference if you have a 4790k or 5960X in games, even in the most threaded games out there.

There is what 5% difference between Ivy and Haswell?

Like with most games high loads on the CPU are not always a constant, it depends on what you are looking at, where you are in the game ecte...

They are also using a GTX 780, which lets be honest is a pretty weak GPU these days, run that on a 980TI or SLI and it will look very different.

This is why the best way to show up in game CPU characteristics is to run low res if you haven't that much GPU grunt to use, the two slides i use understand that, Bit-Tech don't, your also forgetting the 100% CPU load on my i5, the 780 wouldn't do that because it doesn't have the grunt.

 

[Dave2150]

There is what 5% difference between Ivy and Haswell?

Like with most games high loads on the CPU are not always a constant, it depends on what you are looking at, where you are in the game ecte...

They are also using a GTX 780, which lets be honest is a pretty weak GPU these days, run that on a 980TI or SLI and it will look very different.

This is why the best way to show up in game CPU characteristics is to run low res if you haven't that much GPU grunt to use, the two slides i use understand that, Bit-Tech don't, your also forgetting the 100% CPU load on my i5, the 780 wouldn't do that because it doesn't have the grunt.

So you're saying it's a conspiracy and that the bit-tech benchmarks I linked are in an area of the game where there is nothing going on? Perhaps they are just pointing the crosshairs at a brick wall, to further reduce the load on the system?....

Here we go, here's a youtube comparison between a DUAL CORE pentium and a 4790k:

If a dual core can manage very similar FPS to a 4790k, you're really suggesting a hex or octa core can run it better?

Zen hasn't even taped out yet, making my 2017 availability prediction more likely. That's even less incentive for Intel to release a hex core mainstream. I5's will remain all you need for gaming for many years to come.

 

[humbug]

So you're saying it's a conspiracy and that the bit-tech benchmarks I linked are in an area of the game where there is nothing going on? Perhaps they are just pointing the crosshairs at a brick wall, to further reduce the load on the system?....

Here we go, here's a youtube comparison between a DUAL CORE pentium and a 4790k:

If a dual core can manage very similar FPS to a 4790k, you're really suggesting a hex or octa core can run it better?

Zen hasn't even taped out yet, making my 2017 availability prediction more likely. That's even less incentive for Intel to release a hex core mainstream. I5's will remain all you need for gaming for many years to come.

Even with a low end GPU like the 750TI the Pentium bottlenecks the crap out of it.
With a 750TI thats running on low - med settings, with Low settings there is nothing that would put the CPU under stress, yet it still dips massively compared with the i7 when there is more than just an empty scene.

i suppose your one of these people who tells others the Pentium G3258 is a great gaming CPU, stop it! get it on anything half decent with high settings and C3 will run like a slide show.

Oh and Zen has taped out, back in October. http://dresdenboy.blogspot.de/2015/10/amd-zen-and-k12-arm-tapeouts-confirmed.html


Edit:

However, retaining ultra or very high settings in Battlefield 4 and Crysis 3 quickly exposed the frailties of the G3258. Whatever the background processing required in setting up the scene, it's just way too much, even for a two 4.5GHz cores.

FrostByte Engine and CryEngine ^^^^^ the two most sophisticated Engines on the market.

I repeat...

On more than 4 cores, there is a use for it, Modern game engines are so well optimised and do so many things even in DX11 that even relatively modern Intel 4 cores CPU's overclocked are struggling.

I haven't even got Voxel GI turned on in this, that uses ASynchronous CPU calc and knocks the i5 flat on its back, my FX-9590 actually did better in some area's.

Affordable high performance 6 core CPU's can't come soon enough.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The most CPU intensive part of Crysis3,which would be obviously to anyone who ACTUALLY played the game,is Welcome to the Jungle. Why?? All the grass animations are done by the CPU.

The massive dips in the G3258 are down to the physics animations,overloading it.

Dave2150 is just argueing for the sake of getting some attention IMHO,so let him believe he can run all games fine on HIS G3258...

...oh wait! He owns a Core i7 6700K IIRC.

 

[humbug]

The most CPU intensive part of Crysis3,which would be obviously to anyone who ACTUALLY played the game,is Welcome to the Jungle. Why?? All the grass animations are done by the CPU.

The massive dips in the G3258 are down to the physics animations,overloading it.

Dave2150 is just argueing for the sake of getting some attention IMHO,so let him believe he can run all games fine on HIS G3258...

...oh wait! He owns a Core i7 6700K IIRC.

That Grass is stuffed with Coalition Proxies, having played it you may have noticed it reacts to you and its environment, its the same thing Nvidia now call GrassWorks / Hairworks and AMD TressFX, only this is more sophisticated than the Hair Effects as it interacts with players and objects.

The Calculations required for it take their toll on the CPU. Especially if you ain't got many cores to run threads off.

I have a demonstration of it it here, the Grass is crude but its not about what the Grass looks like, its about what its doing.

More upto date

 

[ukxenon]

Instead of speculation why not wait for the real world tests and you can see

 

[pmc25]

That Grass is stuffed with Coalition Proxies

Surely Collision Proxies?

 

[Dave2150]

Even with a low end GPU like the 750TI the Pentium bottlenecks the crap out of it.
With a 750TI thats running on low - med settings, with Low settings there is nothing that would put the CPU under stress, yet it still dips massively compared with the i7 when there is more than just an empty scene.

i suppose your one of these people who tells others the Pentium G3258 is a great gaming CPU, stop it! get it on anything half decent with high settings and C3 will run like a slide show.

Oh and Zen has taped out, back in October. http://dresdenboy.blogspot.de/2015/10/amd-zen-and-k12-arm-tapeouts-confirmed.html


Edit:



FrostByte Engine and CryEngine ^^^^^ the two most sophisticated Engines on the market.

I repeat...

Again you are totally clueless.

Zen hasn't taped out yet:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/3741456-advanced-micro-devices-amd-at-raymond-james-technology-investors-conference-transcript?part=single

Zen was a clean sheet design that started few years ago. We are in the final figure of executing and the milestone that you want hear us talk about is Zen tapping out, which should be over the next several months. And then putting samples in the hands of our customer and then starting portfolio of revenue in 2017.

And by the way, because we have this reuse approach for cores, you will see us with Zen cores in the high-end desktop first and then the server from our overall products standpoint. But the key is tapping out in the next several months, samples and customers for the validation of the product over the 2016 time frame and then the revenue ramp happening in 2016.

Of course I don't recommend a dual core CPU for gaming. I was merely showing that even a dual core can compete with a 5960x with some graphics cards. Obviously faster graphics cards will throttle it.

My main point is that there is no difference in FPS between a 4790k or a 5960X in Crysis 3, when you use a decent GPU. None whatsoever. A I5 quad core is the sweet spot for gaming, and will be for years to come.

Not going to bother to argue further with you, when it's perfectly clear you're not knowledgeable on recent events, and even though that Zen had already taped out.

 

[spoffle]

NEW'S

OH GOD MY BRAIN

 

[pmc25]

Again you are totally clueless.

Zen hasn't taped out yet:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/3741456-advanced-micro-devices-amd-at-raymond-james-technology-investors-conference-transcript?part=single

That conference didn't really confirm or deny anything and the wording used was as clear as mud.

I'm pretty sure desktop FX Zen taped out a while ago. Pro / Server / APU, I doubt it ... I expect they have working silicon but it'll be legit prototypes, not early stepping final design 'prototypes'.

Also pretty sure AMD will be showing FX Zen behind closed doors at CES.

 

[humbug]

Surely Collision Proxies?

Yeah, spell-checker derp

 

[Jono8]

Again you are totally clueless.

Zen hasn't taped out yet:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/3741456-advanced-micro-devices-amd-at-raymond-james-technology-investors-conference-transcript?part=single



Of course I don't recommend a dual core CPU for gaming. I was merely showing that even a dual core can compete with a 5960x with some graphics cards. Obviously faster graphics cards will throttle it.

My main point is that there is no difference in FPS between a 4790k or a 5960X in Crysis 3, when you use a decent GPU. None whatsoever. A I5 quad core is the sweet spot for gaming, and will be for years to come.

Not going to bother to argue further with you, when it's perfectly clear you're not knowledgeable on recent events, and even though that Zen had already taped out.

I noticed a very big difference going from a similarly clocked 2500k to 3770k in those grass bits in Crysis 3.

There are parts of games that will benefit from multiple threads and this will only become more commonplace.

 

[Dave2150]

That conference didn't really confirm or deny anything and the wording used was as clear as mud.

I'm pretty sure desktop FX Zen taped out a while ago. Pro / Server / APU, I doubt it ... I expect they have working silicon but it'll be legit prototypes, not early stepping final design 'prototypes'.

Also pretty sure AMD will be showing FX Zen behind closed doors at CES.

Err, it confirmed Zen hasn't taped out yet.

We are in the final figure of executing and the milestone that you want hear us talk about is Zen tapping out, which should be over the next several months

The fact that it hasn't taped out means it will be a paper launch until 2017, no matter how hard they try.

 

[humbug]

Err, it confirmed Zen hasn't taped out yet.



The fact that it hasn't taped out means it will be a paper launch until 2017, no matter how hard they try.

when was that comment made? 6 months ago?

Read this.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...-we-have-taped-out-our-first-finfet-products/

 

[Orangey]

>claims Zen hasn't taped out when it clearly has
>"proof" is behind a paywall on a site that constantly spreads FUD about AMD for profit

 

[humbug]

>claims Zen hasn't taped out when it clearly has
>"proof" is behind a paywall on a site that constantly spreads FUD about AMD for profit

Where did his quote come from? i bet it was Fudzella.

 

[Davedree]

Where did his quote come from? i bet it was Fudzella.

That slide apparently is from the Amd official slides for the financial analyst day may 6th 2015

 

[FoxEye]

when was that comment made? 6 months ago?

Read this.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...-we-have-taped-out-our-first-finfet-products/

Advanced Micro Devices said on Thursday that it had taped out its first products, which will be made using a FinFET process technology. While AMD does not reveal which products it had taped out, it is highly-likely that one of them is a highly-anticipated microprocessor based on “Zen” micro-architecture.
“We have actually just taped-out our first couple of FinFET designs,” said Lisa Su, chief executive officer of Advanced Micro Devices, during the company’s earnings conference call with investors and financial analysts.

And the head of Radeon previously said, "We will release two new GPUs in 2016."

So Su is saying they've taped out two products, and the Radeon guy is saying they'll release two GPUs in 2016.

Coincidence or not?

 

[Dave2150]

when was that comment made? 6 months ago?

Dec. 8, 2015, a transcript from the Raymond James Technology Investors Conference:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/3741456-advanced-micro-devices-amd-at-raymond-james-technology-investors-conference-transcript?part=single

Zen was a clean sheet design that started few years ago. We are in the final figure of executing and the milestone that you want hear us talk about is Zen tapping out, which should be over the next several months. And then putting samples in the hands of our customer and then starting portfolio of revenue in 2017.

And by the way, because we have this reuse approach for cores, you will see us with Zen cores in the high-end desktop first and then the server from our overall products standpoint. But the key is tapping out in the next several months, samples and customers for the validation of the product over the 2016 time frame and then the revenue ramp happening in 2016.

So yet again I have to remind you that Zen hasn't taped out yet, what's this, the third thread?