One of the texts shows Horner admitting to rubbing one out thinking about the victim. Not illegal, but completely gross and a vast abuse of power.
Motorsport Off Topic Thread
- Thread starter Shimmy
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Except that Horner is the accused, not the other way around…
It’s like you’re in a courtroom defending the accused by saying “well we don’t know the facts yet, it may well be that the defendant was the guy who got murdered”
Soldato
If it is true he's actually sent it, abhorrent.
Soldato
Except that currently all we know is that a accusation of controlling behaviour was investigated by an independent barrister and Horner was found not guilty. Innocent until proven guilty and so far nothing proven.Except that Horner is the accused, not the other way around…
It’s like you’re in a courtroom defending the accused by saying “well we don’t know the facts yet, it may well be that the defendant was the guy who got murdered”
Which fact needs to be pointed out that is not clear?
Once again, come up with the evidence that supports your current and previous accusations against Horner.
Do you personally believe the WhatsApp messages are real or falsified at this point?
Soldato
Motorsport Off Topic Thread
2021 was really boring on track :cry: I knew someone would point that out but that is 3 seasons ago already and with exception to that one the seasons before it were pretty drab also.
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Soldato
No it isn't but I'd like to find out more, however at the moment we don't know either way, it maybe that when the current situation comes to it's climax we will, who knows. If they are genuine then the issue is that who released them and why?Was a yes or no (or least 'real' or 'fake') answer really that hard?
If it was the woman who made these accusations then that could be the reason why she has been suspended for being 'dishonest'.
Having been involved in various similar investigations myself, not as the one being accused but as a independant investigator, I know they will be, and should always be, subject to the strictest confidentiality rules. But, again from my own experience, there is always more to any case than meets the eye and most are not what they appear to be on the surface.
We do not have any right to know until the investigation is completely over and everyone has agreed upon all the evidence being released, and that might be years. The reasons behind that is because there is the chance that it might go to a court of law. Thus any leaks, such as these 'alleged' messages, could prejudice either side of the argument. Certainly any self respecting lawyer could use it as 'leverage' for their own arguments.
However, just to clarify my position on Horner, because some seem to be wrongly thinking I'm defending him. If he is found guilty of any controlling behaviour, that is in any form, I think then his position at Red Bull is untenable and he has to go. I do not have a problem with this.
I've said that right from the beginning but the lynch mob in here think otherwise and have already decided he's guilty and hung him.
Soldato
But we don’t do we? Red Bull have released a statement saying what they’ve done but we have no evidence they’ve actually done what they’ve claimed.
I don’t think Red Bull lied as I do think they investigated as claimed. But to take Red Bull statement as gospel and everything else as fake shows your bias as much as Scam’s.
I am pretty sure the lawyer was HIRED to see what they HAD to do legally to help minimise the risks to the company. Nothing more, nothing less.
Soldato
I'm not taking what anyone is saying as gospel that's the whole point. We can only deal with the facts as we know them to be, and I mean facts.
However if Red Bull hadn't done what they've stated then I'm sure then other interested parties involved in F1 would be taking them to task and I've not heard of any questions from them yet.
As for being as bias as Scam, come on I'm not the one who has been demonising Horner and Red Bull at every opportunity without providing a shred of evidence.
My argument is that anyone is innocent until proven guilty. When there is evidence to prove otherwise that someone is guilty then guilty they are.
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I was only interested in what your personal opinion was regarding whether you think those messages were real or not and I still can't see a straight answer about whether you do or don't
Caporegime
I don't think I'd go as far as "pretty sure"; that seems like a certainty we don't have. But I do think Red Bull have completely failed to put forward a convincing case that this isn't what is going on.
I do wish it would get resolved one way or the other for the good of the sport. I thought arguing about Abu Dhabi was boring but it has nothing on this.
Soldato
Until we have evidence either way then it seems they're open to any interpretation. But I'm just laying it out there that we have no information as to what the source was and if they are actually genuine. As far as I'm concerned until there is then they don't have any credibility because they are so very easy for any individual(s) to put together. My perspective is that they appear to be from the imagination of a teenager's wet dream.I was only interested in what your personal opinion was regarding whether you think those messages were real or not and I still can't see a straight answer about whether you do or don't
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They are, so I was asking what your personal take is.
I guess this is as close as we're going to get to "I don't think they are real"
Soldato
Your not?
Well I look forward to the copies or links to all the evidence of this other than Red Bull press release saying they did.
Again, I think they did investigate but dismissing all information without evidence while stating Red Bull’s investigation as fact also without any evidence is hypercritical.
How about the FIA being asked to investigate?
You keep saying that yet all I’ve said is Horner and RB have form. The top 3 people at the company are independently a wife-beater who was once accused of attempted murder, a racist and demonstrable bully, and someone who cheated on his pregnant wife with a pop star. If you want to come across as less bias, you could at least admit to these 3 most visible RB employees having a somewhat chequered history.
Soldato
A complaint has been made to the FIA and they are investigating this.They are not investigating anything because they were concerned that Red Bull's conduct was in anyway non professional.Thus this is all proper and correct and how it should be.
I'm sure even you can understand what should be done when a complaint is received and the due process that needs to followed.
The only person who has been suspended in all this is the very person you keep defending when no-one yet knows exactly what really has taken place.
However you could not be any more closer to stating that you make personal allegations against Red Bull which have no more of a basis than your own opinion. I guess you must write some of the headlines for the gutter press as well?.
I work every day with people who have had a 'checkered' history thank you...
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Don
Honestly is there anything left to discuss or are you just going round in circles?
Until anything new is revealed discussion on this is more or less done
Until anything new is revealed discussion on this is more or less done
The fact of the matter is this:
This is the first time that someone outside of, or not employed by RB is officially looking into these allegations.
It's clear that RB (the racing team) are a business, and one that has proven to be incredibly ruthless in its approach over the years. It is only natural that they do whatever they can to defend the status quo, given what it has brought them.
Horner has been very bullish up to this point as no one outside of RB (the company as a whole) has been involved in the decision making process.
The FIA can certainly force RB's hand given the new complaint that has been officially lodged with them.
This time, they won't be marking their own homework. Perhaps they were totally above board and the complainant was making stuff up..
I guess we will find out soon enough.
This is the first time that someone outside of, or not employed by RB is officially looking into these allegations.
It's clear that RB (the racing team) are a business, and one that has proven to be incredibly ruthless in its approach over the years. It is only natural that they do whatever they can to defend the status quo, given what it has brought them.
Horner has been very bullish up to this point as no one outside of RB (the company as a whole) has been involved in the decision making process.
The FIA can certainly force RB's hand given the new complaint that has been officially lodged with them.
This time, they won't be marking their own homework. Perhaps they were totally above board and the complainant was making stuff up..
I guess we will find out soon enough.
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